Lord Waheed Alli, has he bought the government?

maddyfour

Starmer is a personal friend of Taylor Swift?

The tickets were bought by the football club according to reports today, not donated by Taylor Swift.

It stinks! No other word for it.

What does the football club want? ( I do know actually.)

Picking on one incident without seeing the wider picture of donations in politics, where they come from and how they are used is simplistic and seriously weakens your argument maddyfour.

Casdon
This government is not different to any previous government. They’ve all been accepting gifts for years.
Boris Johnson - wallpaper, holidays
Theresa May - designer shoes
Tony Blair - holidays

That’s only three examples because I don’t know what Sunak or Truss might have accepted. And that’s only PMs! What about the gifts all the other ministers might have, and have, accepted.

It’s absolutely disgraceful! It needs to be stopped. Completely.

There is no weakness in the argument that no politician should be accepting gifts. No weakness at all, and I’m actually quite shocked that anyone on here is trying to justify it.

Why are you selecting this incident if not for reasons of personal dislike then? I’m not in favour of donations or gifts either, but I do understand the endemic nature of them, and I do not think that it will be a simple task to unpick what the consequences of banning them altogether would be. I also think it would completely change the politics of the UK if it were to change - dismantling a centuries old system.

Perfectly simple: donations made either to Party HQ or to the local branch of the association; used for campaign expenses. No gifts, accommodation, presents as operates in most large and small associations. Not difficult.

Iam64

In public service we were not allowed to accept any gifts. Simple. I’ve never really understood why teachers aren’t included. I’m not suggesting a box of chocs would mean johnie would get better eats results. I do feel it adds to
Pressures on families with mums feeling bad if their money won’t stretch to
The kind of gifts others give. Why not have a charity box where a pound or two can be donated anonymously with the cash used for a local children’s charity or to supplement the cost of school trips.

I agree with you Iam.
It wouldn’t have bothered me if I’d had to declare every box of Maltesers I ever received, and every Poundland ornament too. None of those gifts, given at Christmas or end of year, would change any grades as I didn’t award exam grades, since the children were too small. I’m not opposed to declaring these gifts, or even just informing parents that it’s not allowed.

My argument is that the giving of expensive gifts to politicians is suspect. I don’t care which party we’re talking about, I have no axe to grind for one party or another, my point is that it is a despicable practice, and in the main, done for a purpose.

Funnily enough, I’ve just seen Rebecca Long-Bailey interviewed and she echoed my point of view. She was given an extremely expensive handbag once, even with her initials on it, it was personalised, imagine the cost, and she was extremely embarrassed about it as she feels it’s not appropriate. She felt it too embarrassing to refuse, and so ended up buying the giver an expensive gift back. I understand her embarrassment. She felt the giving of, and receiving of, such an expensive gift, meant there was an expectation of something in return. She doesn’t agree with the giving of gifts to politicians. I agree with her.

What surprises me is that posters are defending this practice. Unbelievable!

Casdon

Why are you selecting this incident if not for reasons of personal dislike then? I’m not in favour of donations or gifts either, but I do understand the endemic nature of them, and I do not think that it will be a simple task to unpick what the consequences of banning them altogether would be. I also think it would completely change the politics of the UK if it were to change - dismantling a centuries old system.

I’m not selecting a particular example, apart from as an example, and I think you are well aware of that.

More to the point, why are you defining this disgraceful practice?

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-2021-0121/
Look at the section on Candidate Spending eazybee.

Do you mean defending rather than defining maddyfour? I’m not defending the practice, I’m saying that when it is common knowledge that a practice is endemic, selecting one incident and using it as an example because it suits your political viewpoint is biased, that’s all.

You are guilty of defending Starmer just because it suits your particular political agenda yourself.

I, on the other hand, have repeatedly said that this practice is despicable. I have said that any politician who is receiving gifts, should not be doing so. I have mentioned Conservative MPs too. I have repeatedly said that this practice is immoral and I have repeatedly said it needs to be stopped. Nothing to do with any political party. Everything to do with the practice. You are accusing me of exactly what you are doing yourself. I have seen no condemnation from you about this practice!

eazybee

Perfectly simple: donations made either to Party HQ or to the local branch of the association; used for campaign expenses. No gifts, accommodation, presents as operates in most large and small associations. Not difficult.

Agree 👍🏻

No one is supporting bribery. We are discussing what constitutes bribery and what is simply a friendly gift

maddyfour

You are guilty of defending Starmer just because it suits your particular political agenda yourself.

I, on the other hand, have repeatedly said that this practice is despicable. I have said that any politician who is receiving gifts, should not be doing so. I have mentioned Conservative MPs too. I have repeatedly said that this practice is immoral and I have repeatedly said it needs to be stopped. Nothing to do with any political party. Everything to do with the practice. You are accusing me of exactly what you are doing yourself. I have seen no condemnation from you about this practice!

I’m not defending anybody, I’m saying the system is the issue. I have also said from the beginning that this system is corrupt, and I do not support what Starmer et al have done. Check my posts for proof. The more I’ve found out about the system, the more I’ve understood how it works, and has worked. That’s why posts which don’t acknowledge how endemic, longstanding, and complex to resolve this issue and instead pinpoint specific actions, frustrate me.

GrannyGravy13

eazybee

Perfectly simple: donations made either to Party HQ or to the local branch of the association; used for campaign expenses. No gifts, accommodation, presents as operates in most large and small associations. Not difficult.

Agree 👍🏻

I agree too, but we have to recognise that the party funding system is also wide open to personal gifts and donations, that’s why I highlighted that section. It’s the opposite of simple to go down the route eazybee proposed, without dismantling the whole political funding system.

Well then we agree Casdon.

I don’t believe accepting gifts should be allowed. However, it can be done privately and I daresay there’s much we don’t know.

No truer saying than “politics is a dirty business”. Self serving politicians are aplenty and it’s a shame. That’s not say all MP’s have their snouts in the trough but many on both sides of the house do.

In the spirit of balance:

www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/kemi-badenoch-running-her-leadership-campaign-from-home-of-wealthy-donor-383643/amp/

Keir Starmer borrowed (and declared) the London flat of a Labour donor - absolutely vilified by MSM and SM.

Kemi Badenoch borrows (currently undeclared) the London home of a Conservative donor - media silence🤷‍♀️

As Lord Alli’s name has been all over the media for weeks, in the spirit of balance, Badenoch’s benefactor is Neil Record - multi millionaire Tuffton Street ‘guru’ and chair of a ‘climate denying’ organisation.

So we can say they are having an affair ?

GrannyGravy13

Iam64 the wallpaper was wrong, the tickets were wrong, another man paying for your wife’s clothes are wrong.

The optics of this are a disaster for the Labour Party, more so due to them continuously lambasting and calling out the previous Government for accepting donations and freebies.

The people responsible for the LP’s PR and spin need to either up their game or be replaced.

The excuses are quite sad really.

The optics of this are a disaster for the Labour Party, more so due to them continuously lambasting and calling out the previous Government for accepting donations and freebies.

I recall that the calling out of the previous government was for the blatant rewarding of their donors with contracts, favours and honours..

Labour hasn't yet shown signs of doing this, even though plenty of people believe that they will. I'd rather wait for tangible proof of favours for Labour donors before condemning them.

Iam64

No one is supporting bribery. We are discussing what constitutes bribery and what is simply a friendly gift

This, in terms of future policy and guidelines, is surely what matters.

But there is press bias as things stand - Robert Jenricks "gifts" list and Badenhoch's use of a home should be as discussed as much as any other.

Wyllow3

But there is press bias as things stand - Robert Jenricks "gifts" list and Badenhoch's use of a home should be as discussed as much as any other.

I agree, I think you should start a thread.

GG I did start a thread about Jenrick’s donations. It received 42 comments🤷‍♀️

LizzieDrip

GG I did start a thread about Jenrick’s donations. It received 42 comments🤷‍♀️

Indeed you did, I remember posting on it.

Do you think it didn’t receive a lot of interest because he maybe/maybe not the next leader of the opposition as opposed to KS being the current PM?

I must admit I am fed up with the majority of MP’s whatever colour rosette they wear. All I hear are sound bites, and blustering, perhaps I was naive hoping that things would change…

Unless there is a massive improvement in political standards and morals in the coming years not sure I will vote in another GE.