Israel

One thing people seem to overlook is this - remember the high tech explosions recently in Lebanon, when Israeli know how ensured Hezbollah operatives are targeted. Remember how you all applauded Israel fir having this know how. Clever, yes?
The fact is Israel is at the cutting edge of new technologies aimed at targeting terrorists, have been for decades, they even share their expertise with other governments.
Keeping this in mind it seems rather odd that the IDF had to brutally bomb and blast Gaza until it looks like a moonscape, bringing buildings down on the heads of innocent civilians, trying to kill Hamas operatives. Is true that some were allegedly in tunnels but others they said were hiding in schools and refugee camps.
So what happened to their cutting edge technology?
Or are they just intent upon a scorched earth policy alongside ethnic cleansing?
Seriously, we need to start joining the dots here.

I was thinking of starting a thread on this, so thank you nellflanders for doing it first. I sat in the comfort of my living room, with the rain lashing down outside, and I watched this documentary. It made me shake, literally, feeling just a tiny fraction of the fear that these innocent young people must have been feeling, as they hid in shelters, rubbish bins, fridges, and toilets. Desperately trying to escape in their cars and finding each way blocked by the disgusting Hamas murderers, who laughed when they killed yet another person. The fear leapt at me, through the television screen. I had to leave the room occasionally to give myself a moment’s break, but I returned to watch it through to the end, because I wanted to fully understand why I despise Hamas and Hezbollah (and any terrorists) and I support Israel’s right to defend herself and her people.

maddyfour

I was thinking of starting a thread on this, so thank you nellflanders for doing it first. I sat in the comfort of my living room, with the rain lashing down outside, and I watched this documentary. It made me shake, literally, feeling just a tiny fraction of the fear that these innocent young people must have been feeling, as they hid in shelters, rubbish bins, fridges, and toilets. Desperately trying to escape in their cars and finding each way blocked by the disgusting Hamas murderers, who laughed when they killed yet another person. The fear leapt at me, through the television screen. I had to leave the room occasionally to give myself a moment’s break, but I returned to watch it through to the end, because I wanted to fully understand why I despise Hamas and Hezbollah (and any terrorists) and I support Israel’s right to defend herself and her people.

Every country and its citizens have the right to defend themselves and expect to feel safe in their own own and free of terrorism.

When it stop being self-defence against an appalling bunch of terrorists and revenge and genocide?

At what point does it cease to matter how many children and babies are being murdered on both sides?

Babs03

One thing people seem to overlook is this - remember the high tech explosions recently in Lebanon, when Israeli know how ensured Hezbollah operatives are targeted. Remember how you all applauded Israel fir having this know how. Clever, yes?
The fact is Israel is at the cutting edge of new technologies aimed at targeting terrorists, have been for decades, they even share their expertise with other governments.
Keeping this in mind it seems rather odd that the IDF had to brutally bomb and blast Gaza until it looks like a moonscape, bringing buildings down on the heads of innocent civilians, trying to kill Hamas operatives. Is true that some were allegedly in tunnels but others they said were hiding in schools and refugee camps.
So what happened to their cutting edge technology?
Or are they just intent upon a scorched earth policy alongside ethnic cleansing?
Seriously, we need to start joining the dots here.

I agree.

Sorry, appear to be having “missing words issues” today!

Cossy

Babs03

One thing people seem to overlook is this - remember the high tech explosions recently in Lebanon, when Israeli know how ensured Hezbollah operatives are targeted. Remember how you all applauded Israel fir having this know how. Clever, yes?
The fact is Israel is at the cutting edge of new technologies aimed at targeting terrorists, have been for decades, they even share their expertise with other governments.
Keeping this in mind it seems rather odd that the IDF had to brutally bomb and blast Gaza until it looks like a moonscape, bringing buildings down on the heads of innocent civilians, trying to kill Hamas operatives. Is true that some were allegedly in tunnels but others they said were hiding in schools and refugee camps.
So what happened to their cutting edge technology?
Or are they just intent upon a scorched earth policy alongside ethnic cleansing?
Seriously, we need to start joining the dots here.

I agree.

exactly..

Babs03 Israel managed to intercept the order of pagers and walkie talkies heading for Hezbollah.

I imagine this was in part due to the video that Hezbollah Head Honcho put out on social media telling its operatives not to use their smart phones any more as they can be tracked, and to await their delivery of pagers…

Cossy

Sorry, appear to be having “missing words issues” today!

😂😂

Tbh I saw some pretty awful footage of what happened on Oct 7th after the event. It was an atrocity. And of course we will feel outraged and extremely upset.
But revenge is for Mafia bosses not responsible governments.
And if Netanyahu sets a precedent for how nations deal with terrorism just imagine what that could mean. Certainly if that precedent had been set during ‘the troubles’ when the IRA bombed mainland Britain then what would stop our government from bombing NI into the ground and killing thousands of Irish civilians within months.

Babs03

Tbh I saw some pretty awful footage of what happened on Oct 7th after the event. It was an atrocity. And of course we will feel outraged and extremely upset.
But revenge is for Mafia bosses not responsible governments.
And if Netanyahu sets a precedent for how nations deal with terrorism just imagine what that could mean. Certainly if that precedent had been set during ‘the troubles’ when the IRA bombed mainland Britain then what would stop our government from bombing NI into the ground and killing thousands of Irish civilians within months.

I was in London very close when two of the IRA bombs went off.

The IRA gave coded warnings of the majority of their bombs, they did not go to Glastonbury and kill, rape, torture young British Festival goers. They did not go into peoples homes and behead them, throw grenades into the air vents of safe rooms where families were hiding.

The IRA did not send rockets into mainland U.K. day after day.

There is no comparison…

@grannygravy.
No terrorism can be sanitised. Am sure the loved ones of those killed by the IRA would argue that there is a comparison, especially the family of the young British soldier pulled literally limb from limb at an IRA funeral.
But if I go along with your line of thinking you feel it is ok for Netanyahu to do as he is doing right now in Gaza?
Despite most western leaders now calling for restraint and the UN calling Israel out for war crimes as well as breaking every international law in existence.

It was an awful attack that night indeed - I'm not disputing that.

The thing is though that the full context needs to be put in place - to understand the background to all this.

It all started back in 1918 or thereabouts and is the fault of the British Government of the time for deciding on giving the Jews a "homeland" (which could only possibly mean giving them someone else's country - unless they meant to settle them at the Arctic or Antarctic poles pretty much). So they decided on Palestine and just after the 2nd World War they gave the Jews part of Palestine and they've been grabbing for more of that "someone else's country" ever since.

My father was in the British Armed Forces and he never did say much about his time in it and I finally figured out, as a teenager, some idea as to how to get him to leave them and he did and retrained. But - despite me blocking most of my childhood memories until then - I do remember him clearly saying he was in Palestine at the time of the Naqbah (1947 or thereabouts) in the British armed forces. His comment "We had to protect the Palestinians from them - they were chasing them/they were murdering them" about the Jews. He knew the Jews were stealing their houses/stealing their land and are still stealing their land to this day. Only today I've shared a video that's just been made and features that "woman" who is leading the settlers in their attempts to steal more of Palestine and she had a group of these settlers on a large boat with her just off the coast of Gaza and they are already planning to head into Gaza as soon as they can and steal that land too.

Just check on YouTube and there are videos up there giving the whole history about the Naqbah (ie the Jews massacring and stealing from the Palestinians and it tells the tale right from the 1940s onwards and one can see what has happened) and just why the anger exists against the Jews.

So I'm not excusing Hamas - but people do seriously need to read up on the background of why the Israeli Government and their settlers are so unpopular.

Babs03

@grannygravy.
No terrorism can be sanitised. Am sure the loved ones of those killed by the IRA would argue that there is a comparison, especially the family of the young British soldier pulled literally limb from limb at an IRA funeral.
But if I go along with your line of thinking you feel it is ok for Netanyahu to do as he is doing right now in Gaza?
Despite most western leaders now calling for restraint and the UN calling Israel out for war crimes as well as breaking every international law in existence.

I haven’t said it’s OK for Netanyahu to bomb indiscriminately.

I have said I think I understand why he is going after both Hamas and Hezbollah, who backed by Iran want to kill Jews until they are wiped off of the planet. There are multiple videos available on Utube etc., of their Head Honcho’s vowing to do this and repeat 7/10/23 until Jews are no more.

Hamas hid amongst women and children, they are cowards. How about condemning them for that?

I would be extremely grateful and relieved if a cease fire could be agreed on.

"Nakba" is the British spelling of what happened in 1947 in Palestine.

From 1940’s onward when the world learned about the holocaust many did not share those views of Jews

@GrannyGravy I have condemned Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran in no uncertain terms.
But 50,000 Palestinians are now dead, approx half children, this cannot be tolerated in a so called civilised society.
Of course Hamas is to blame but so is Netanyahu and he has State of the art first world weaponry supplied by the west making Gaza into a moonscape.
In the very beginning he was advised that this would not get rid of Hamas but effectively result in genocide.
And we are where we are.

Babs03

@grannygravy.
No terrorism can be sanitised. Am sure the loved ones of those killed by the IRA would argue that there is a comparison, especially the family of the young British soldier pulled literally limb from limb at an IRA funeral.
But if I go along with your line of thinking you feel it is ok for Netanyahu to do as he is doing right now in Gaza?
Despite most western leaders now calling for restraint and the UN calling Israel out for war crimes as well as breaking every international law in existence.

I agree.

I too was commuting to the Square Mile in The City during all of the IRA attacks.

It was very scary and nerve wracking and one of the buildings bombed was right next to my building.

Of course the extent of the killings and atrocities aren’t too extreme, but tbh that is almost irrelevant.

Anniebach

From 1940’s onward when the world learned about the holocaust many did not share those views of Jews

I’m pretty sure absolutely no one here holds Israeli citizens responsible for anything happening at the moment.

I too pray for a total ceasefire and not because I support Hamas in any way, I utterly condemn their actions. If there was any way of killing them off without harming children and babies I would support this.

Babs03

@GrannyGravy I have condemned Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran in no uncertain terms.
But 50,000 Palestinians are now dead, approx half children, this cannot be tolerated in a so called civilised society.
Of course Hamas is to blame but so is Netanyahu and he has State of the art first world weaponry supplied by the west making Gaza into a moonscape.
In the very beginning he was advised that this would not get rid of Hamas but effectively result in genocide.
And we are where we are.

👏👏👏

There will be a follow up programme on the BBC, its announced in their report and video of October 7th on I player
"Another BBC Storyville, Life and Death in Gaza, will be broadcast in October""

Israel has been landgrabbibg,herding Palestinians into a small area killing civilians and putting CHILDREN in jails LONG BEFORE Hamas existed .Take off your blinkers The Israeli state is rotten to the core and has been for decades .
Israel can’t play the victim for ever though it has done successfully for over 60 years by ignoringUN resolutions time after time after time .
Netanyahu is just the latest who wants to rid the area of Palestinians ..people who lived on and farmed that land for centuries.SAdly the world is still on their side. Even though the facts show they are totallly in the wrong .Theyshould all be brought to book for their war crimes against INNOCENT people .Netanyahu should be in jail NOW!,

Most people seem to have forgotten that Jewish people lived on the land now called Israel for centuries. They have inhabited that area for at least four thousand years, if not longer. Many Jews were expelled by the Arabs centuries ago, but some remained and lived alongside the Arabs. They were not called Palestinians then, but the Jews have always been called Israelites or Jews. After the Holocaust Jewish people realised they would never be safe without a homeland and many survivors returned to Israel. We all know the rest, but let us not pretend that the Jews stole the land. Jewish people never left the land. This war is not about land, it is about ideology. Hezbollah haven’t had their land stolen, they’ve been firing rockets into Israel by the thousands. But no one stole their lands. And Palestinians who live in Israel have full citizenship and full rights.

Maddyfour thank you for truth

maddyfour

Most people seem to have forgotten that Jewish people lived on the land now called Israel for centuries. They have inhabited that area for at least four thousand years, if not longer. Many Jews were expelled by the Arabs centuries ago, but some remained and lived alongside the Arabs. They were not called Palestinians then, but the Jews have always been called Israelites or Jews. After the Holocaust Jewish people realised they would never be safe without a homeland and many survivors returned to Israel. We all know the rest, but let us not pretend that the Jews stole the land. Jewish people never left the land. This war is not about land, it is about ideology. Hezbollah haven’t had their land stolen, they’ve been firing rockets into Israel by the thousands. But no one stole their lands. And Palestinians who live in Israel have full citizenship and full rights.

Some of what you say is right, Jews have always lived alongside Arabs in what used to be called Palestine. But to say that Palestinian land has not been grabbed by Isrealis is completely untrue, indeed to deny illegal settlements would be ridiculous, even Israelis admit there are illegal settlements, it is a matter of record. Even now land and property is being taken from Palestinians in the West Bank. And all Palestinians are subjected to having their documents checked wherever they go, they are not equal to Israelis, there is apartheid.
Also if this was a true democracy where Palestinians have equal rights and the same citizenship as Israelis why hasn't there been a Palestinian PM in Israel, why is the government solely Jewish, with political leaders elected by Palestinians who are then never given absolutely no say in how Israel is run?

Correction -......Palestinians who are then given absolutely no say in how Israel is run