Thousands stuck in Lebanon

It seems to me that Lebanon has no interest in its own people

That'll be right. dear me.

perpetrated, not perpetuated

During the Sabra and Shatila massacre , 1982, between 1,800 and 3,500 refugees were killed, perpetuated by Lebanese forces under the command of a Lebanese soldier, in revenge for the Damour massacre 1976, in response to the Karantina(?) massacre.
The IDF did not participate in the killings but guarded the exits from the camps, and were held indirectly responsible as the occupying power after driving out the PLO, for taking no steps to prevent the massacre and ignoring the danger of bloodshed and revenge.
And so it continues.

The immediate problem is repatriation . Not enough planes and planes being cancelled. It is also very dangerous travelling to the airport just now.

Coronation I wasn’t thinking necessarily about the UK but more involvement is needed from countries in the vicinity. Or failing that, there needs to be a world wide body to oversee safe evacuation in times of crisis. It seems to me that Lebanon has no interest in its own people whereas Israel has good protection in terms of safe rooms and air defence. Stories of seeking refuge in the Lebanese mountains, whilst better than nothing, don’t seem to be satisfactory for a long period. I know so little about this so excuse my ignorance.

Coronation

I agree Ronib. Sadly there may be economic migrants who destroy papers and claim to be from Israel making it more difficult for genuine asylum seekers.

Really? How do you know this?

ronib

I am not being obtuse but it did strike me that the civilians caught up in this conflict are true asylum seekers as opposed to economic migrants. I think more needs to be done by the rest of the world to protect them.

👏👏👏

I agree Ronib. Sadly there may be economic migrants who destroy papers and claim to be from Israel making it more difficult for genuine asylum seekers.

ronib

I am not being obtuse but it did strike me that the civilians caught up in this conflict are true asylum seekers as opposed to economic migrants. I think more needs to be done by the rest of the world to protect them.

Well said.

I am not being obtuse but it did strike me that the civilians caught up in this conflict are true asylum seekers as opposed to economic migrants. I think more needs to be done by the rest of the world to protect them.

Britain was at the forefront in establishing the state of Israel of course. So we can’t wash our hands of conflicts in that region.

I don't think that part of the world will ever know peace and its not our job to interfere and pointless too, they have their lives and customs we shouldn't get involved in, I’ve stopped watching the news its so depressing its as if we are trying to manage the worlds problems and we are such a small country.

Know? I typed die 🤷‍♀️

Babs03 I posted up thread that Israel chose to protect its civilians as opposed to tunnels for terrorists

It is a complicated situation, with no easy answer, certainly more casualties.

Nobody wants to see innocent civilians know however, I and many others will not shed a single tear for any terrorists killed…

GrannyGravy13

Babs03 If Israel is happy we are safe

How on earth can Israel be happy whilst on the receiving end of rockets fired on it every day from Hezbollah?

Thank goodness it has the Iron Dome System or it would be flattened.

Israel was not safe long before Hezbollah came into being or Hamas. The trouble in that region has been historical. Lebanon has suffered several incursions by Israel previous to the emergence of Hezbollah.
Indeed the massacre at the Sabre and Shatila refugee camp in Lebanon in the 1980s, when between 3,000 and 6,000 innocent refugees were slaughtered by Christian militias, aided by the IDF, predates all of this.
And yes is a good job Israel has an iron dome, but nobody else has, so they are just being killed in their thousands. I think people have stopped counting.

Babs03 If Israel is happy we are safe

How on earth can Israel be happy whilst on the receiving end of rockets fired on it every day from Hezbollah?

Thank goodness it has the Iron Dome System or it would be flattened.

Sorry typos there but I think my post is pretty clear.

@growstuff, looks like it.
Indeed the aim to get rid of Hamas or Hezbollah is a vain hope, and Bibi knows this, terrorism is organic, growing whenever the seeds of hate and despair are sown, and whether they call themselves Hamas or Hezbollah is irrelevant, they will continue to proliferate against Israel.
Gaza and the West Bank will be secured as Israeli territory, the North of Lebanon will be militarised, and conflicts will continue sporadically.
This will not ensure safety and a peaceful solution in the region.
Oh and we must add the tally the fact that Lebanon, on its knees before all this, will become a third world country teetering on the edge of complete collapse, and without any help from western nations.
Right now my OH has relatives in Lebanon who have run for the mountains with whomever they could take with them, but they are not safe, and soon the mountains get cold with winter approaching.
Nobody gives a damn.
That a lesson the Lebanese learned a long time ago. The oft repeated mantra there is ‘if Israel is happy we are safe.’

Jaberwok

Israel probably doesn't have an end game as such. However Israel is well aware of world wide hostility both to this country, and more scarily, Jews in particular. As has been said Jews have been systematically targeted for centuries, notably the 20th. The homeland for Jews has been hard fought for, with blood sweat and tears a plenty, they will fight to the last person standing to protect themselves, and I wholeheartedly support them.

Anybody going into this kind of war needs an endgame. At the moment, it seems that Israel won't stop until Gaza and the West Bank have been emptied of Palestinians and enough Lebanese territory occupied to secure the northern border.

Today ( Thursday ) our government has issued a warning that all Australians need to get out of Lebanon immediately because the airport is likely to close. Fine if you can get a flight but sadly many can’t. We can only pray that things settle down but I don’t think so.

Babs03

Allira

And those of you who won’t settle for anything other than obliteration of all Israel’s enemies

Who do you mean exactly by those of you?

It's not a case of one or the other, taking sides as far as I am concerned.

Did I refer to you?
This is a much wider concern than a thread on Gransnet, and tbh nobody cares what we have to say.
I am talking more generally, there are plenty of warmongers out there who as ever are happy to agitate and goad other players in the region. But we should, all of us, be careful not to let this colour our opinions in any way.
A ceasefire on all sides and an attempt at peace is the only way forwards for anyone.

🤔

No, I knew you couldn't mean me in particular.

But in a post on a smallish social media site stating those of you one would assume the word you might be addressing other members of that group.

A poor choice of words, perhaps.

Allira

^And those of you who won’t settle for anything other than obliteration of all Israel’s enemies^

Who do you mean exactly by those of you?

It's not a case of one or the other, taking sides as far as I am concerned.

Did I refer to you?
This is a much wider concern than a thread on Gransnet, and tbh nobody cares what we have to say.
I am talking more generally, there are plenty of warmongers out there who as ever are happy to agitate and goad other players in the region. But we should, all of us, be careful not to let this colour our opinions in any way.
A ceasefire on all sides and an attempt at peace is the only way forwards for anyone.

Hyperbole.

And those of you who won’t settle for anything other than obliteration of all Israel’s enemies

Who do you mean exactly by those of you?

It's not a case of one or the other, taking sides as far as I am concerned.

Am afraid many ordinary Israelis/Jewish people globally are not in favour of Netanyahu or how he has caused yet more hostility in the countries surrounding Israel, goaded Iran in order for western allies, namely the US, to get involved, and left the hostages high and dry. At no point has Netanyahu wanted a ceasefire or to call for peace despite Hamas and Hezbollah coming round the table in Qatar, the US and UN are at the end of their tethers.
At some point, no matter who has done what, these people have to get round a table and hammer it out, war was Netanyahus get out of jail free card with the Israeli people, now they have to stand by him. But this can’t go on. And those of you who won’t settle for anything other than obliteration of all Israel’s enemies should be aware that very soon western governments will have to send our own armed forces out there.
And in any case Israel cannot get rid of all its enemies, for every terrorist they kill ten more who have lost their families and homes will take up arms.
This has ever been the way.