Assisted dying

B9exchange

I think it is telling that over 80% of doctors and over 80% of those working in palliative care are against assisted dying. Doctors went into the profession to try their best to heal people, with the motto engrained into their training of 'first do no harm'. Basically they don't want to be part of killing people! As a nurse many years ago we used to ease people out of this life if their pain became too much, it was never made common knowledge, and I believe that now patients and relatives are asked if they would like to be rendered unconscious in cases like this.

For me the problem of the slippery slope is insurmountable, and this is why the disabled are so against it. As with abortion, which started off with very strict criteria which were then gradually relaxed. I am all for abortion as long as it is not just used as birth control, but it seems that is effectively how it is being used now for many people.

You start off with limiting it to people judged to have less than six months to live, then you expand it to those with life limiting diseases, then to those with incurable diseases, then to adults with mental health problems, then children with mental health problems, until there are very few limits at all. If assisted dying goes through, no safeguards will prevent the expansion scope, as can be seen in countries who have started down this route.

To me it is the worry of coercion by relatives who don't want to see the house go in care fees, but more than that, just the feeling of guilt from those who feel they are becoming an expensive burden, and that it is their duty to request death to relieve others of that worry. If there was an option to save the bulk of my savings for the family, rather than spend it on care, I know that I would feel duty bound to take it.

So you're saying nurses murdered people, and got away with it. Who authorised that?

furzeacre579

yes with Starmer's hatred of old people it wont be long before he singles out which of us has to take the tablet and die.

Just because the Labour government has had to make hard decisions about managing the economy and has made a change to stop wasting millions by giving away money every year to people who don’t need it you conclude that Keir Starmer hates old people. Really?

I have joined Dignity In Dying in the fight for this for years now having watched my Mum & my Nan suffer in their last days! I have told my son that I do not want to be hooked up to machines keeping me alive in pain & probably confusion until my body can take no more & that as he will have Power Of Attorney to make the decisions that he knows I would want! Anyone in doubt should go to Dignity In Dyings web site & read all that is required before someone is granted that end! This is not something just thrown up by a few ill informed people! I do not want to end up screaming in pain while being given meds that only take the edge of the pain & do not give any quality of life just prolong my misery because the Doctors think that they have God given right too! I fully support this & hope it is in place should I need it, though I do hope I go peacefully in my sleep! Probably not good for my family but the way I would hope to go! Right now I do wake up & thankfully say great I am still here as I want to see my Grandchildren grow up a bit more!

Personally, I am in favour although not sure it would (have helped) in the instance of my Gran. She led a very active life but had a stroke at 82 and from 85 onwards just sat in a geriatric hospital. She wasn't terminally ill but for 11 years she didn't know who she was, who we were, where she was and it was soul destroying to watch. Only her heart kept her alive. I know that she would not have wished that existence on her worst enemy. However, she would have been incapable of making such a decision. I am not even sure a living will would have helped her. It was so sad and I know my mother, my sisters and I would not like to endure this. I would like to think it might help us.

There is a system of self -delivery of a quiet death for those to whom doctor assisted dying is denied as in the UK at present.

Look up 'Exit' on Google . I think you have to have belonged to Exit for three months before they will send you the booklet about drugs and method of administration. Obviously Exit is too much for most of the Grans here , and I will understand if the moderator deletes my post.

My concern is the assisted dying will be a rehash of the Liverpool pathway that was withdrawn in 2014. There was evidence doctors were making the decision to end a patients life without consultation with the patient or their families. I know of two families impacted by this method, neither of whom had been consulted nor were they prepared for their family members death. It’s a difficult decision for everyone and what happens if a family member objects are their point of view going to take precedent over the patient.

I understand the argument about coercion, but I think that there must be ways of countering this. I agree with other posters who have mentioned dementia - I am truly terrified of ending up like my mother, and I know that if she had had the choice she would never have wished to be in that state of bewilderment and long drawn out distress. I am comforted by the thought that I might actually have the choice, and concerned, like OldFrill, that religious dogma might win out.

I also know someone whose mother was put on the pathway, totally against her wishes, and those of her family.

It took a long, drawn out and distressing couple of years before the hospital admitted that this was what they had done.

MissInterpreted

I am absolutely in favour of it. Yes, safeguards would be needed to protect the vulnerable, but we should all have the right to die with dignity. We don't let our beloved pets linger on in suffering, so why should humans have to?

Absolutely agree 100%

Isn't it ironic that Esther Rantzen said “The fact that I may actually still be here to witness a debate in Parliament on this crucial life and death issue is not what I expected at all.”?
It also annoys me that Sir Keir Starmer said he is pleased he could keep his vow to Dame Esther Rantzen to make time for a debate and vote on assisted dying.
I suppose it's another way of reducing the cost of pensioners to the economy

It's what people have been hoping for for years; long before Starmer.

sweetpea

Yes, I agree with Bridie22 but why should MPs get a vote, surely it should be taken by us all?

Totally agree with the concept of assisted dying but as above I also agree that it should not be left to MP's to decide on such a crucial matter that is so personal to so many of us.

I am against assisted dying as I think I have made clear, but I think I am even more against having a referendum about it.

No one group of people are full of altruistic individuals.
Mps, medics, families...

Are/ Is

With proper guidelines IMO this really needs to be a choice we all have when the time comes.

Apart from the pain and indignity, I can’t help thinking how much money it would save the NHS and yes, I’m aware this sounds brutal, but not everyone will have the option of a hospice. My sister is a volunteer at her local hospice and says it’s a lovely place but it struggles financially to keep its head above water.

If civilised countries like Canada and New Zealand can make it work why can’t we? I feel sure it will happen eventually so why not now. I’d feel comforted to know the option was available for me if I chose to end my life.

I agree with GrannyGravy13.

I'd want a flexible and changeable loose arrangement.
Who is going to oversee that, and ensure it happens when, how, and where it happens?

I'm all for it, always have been.

We allow MORE dignity for our beloved pets than we do our relatives. Not all of us need a vet to tell us, "let go". The dog I lost just over 2 years ago, was epileptic but she was otherwise healthy. The side effect to the medication was ataxia and the last weekend with her, she came running in like a loon and crumpled to the ground. The look on her face when she looked at me as she pulled herself up, again, I smiled at her, told her good girl, grabbed my phone, walked outside and sat in the car in tears telling the nurse, it's cruel to keep her alive. When the nurse saw her (as we already had a regular appointment,) she was shocked by her condition and told me that the greatest honour is the ability to be able to make this decision for her.

When my beloved died 7 months later to the date, I couldn't even speak to the vet, mum had to do it, as it broke my heart knowing she was going to die, just days after falling ill.

Both of them were cremated and joined some of the others on the mantle.

Mum has always said she wants the works, have to keep her alive. Well, 2 weeks ago I got the resus talk off the Dr at A&E as she was half dead! Even On the Ward, slowly recovering I was thinking about it. When she came to, the Wards Dr, asked about the respect form and explained it. We weren't pressured. It made mum think, because the "works" etc are brutal (chest compression and the rest) and her condition, it didn't take a genius to see, it could have done more harm than good.

None here want mum to die, but surely she SHOULD be allowed to die peacefully and with dignity if needs must?

Yes, have checks and safeguards etc, but it's WRONG that a person has to die in pain. Mum is on some of the strongest pain killers you can get and still has pain, yet there are those who would deny her them as she needs to "manage" her pain better. That's codswallop.

Paracetamol is seen as a good painkiller, it doesnt work for everyone, doesn't touch me, took 10 once in 1 day, still had pain, boy did that annoy me!

I personally CANNOT see the point of allowing suffering, I am not religious and I know the Church is against this, but people SHOULD be able to end THEIR lives when they want without consequences, free will after all!

Again, who is going to ensure that a persons views are accommodated, each and every time they change?

I totally agree with SillyNanny321. I too have been with Dignity in Dying for years to campaign for this option. I am tired of some MP's stating that everyone is entitled to good palliative end of life care. Well thanks. It just isn't available. My children know my wishes. There is only one certainty in life and that is that we all will die. I want the choice of my own type of death and shall continue the fight until I achieve this choice. I hope the bill gets passed.

My mother in law was put on the Liverpool Pathway, with my husband’s consent, we had never heard of it, but were assured it would be quick and peaceful. It was neither, she hung on for a week, very distressed, not knowing who we were. Horrible memories for my husband and children who were with her a lot. So much kinder to have helped her along, she wasn’t in pain as far as we could tell, but she was dying, and it was horrible for her.
I would live my life so much happier if I could be sure I could leave on my own terms.

SillyNanny321 and catd, am also with Dignity in Dying.

I believe it’s the patients choice, If I was suffering terribly with no hope of getting better, I would like to make my our decision to end my life.

I made a similar decision for an aunt, Luckygirl3, but although she had well advanced dementia and the umpteenth UTI (was refusing food and drink) she wasn’t in nearly such a dreadful state as your poor dh.

I was given the option of sending her to hospital for drips, or leaving her where she was (lovely care home) where she’d be given palliative care, but where she would otherwise die.

She was late 80s, and I knew perfectly well what her former self would have wanted, but I asked the lovely GP anyway, what he’d do if it were his much-loved aunt.
He said unhesitatingly that he’d leave her where she was, where she’d be well cared for- it would only happen again, probably quite soon, anyway.

Plus of course hospital is a truly terrible place for anyone with dementia, when they can’t understand what is going on, or why.
She continued to refuse the offered food and drink, and drifted away quite peacefully after about a week.