Assisted dying

sweetpea

Yes, I agree with Bridie22 but why should MPs get a vote, surely it should be taken by us all?

Totally agree with the concept of assisted dying but as above I also agree that it should not be left to MP's to decide on such a crucial matter that is so personal to so many of us.

It's what people have been hoping for for years; long before Starmer.

Isn't it ironic that Esther Rantzen said “The fact that I may actually still be here to witness a debate in Parliament on this crucial life and death issue is not what I expected at all.”?
It also annoys me that Sir Keir Starmer said he is pleased he could keep his vow to Dame Esther Rantzen to make time for a debate and vote on assisted dying.
I suppose it's another way of reducing the cost of pensioners to the economy

MissInterpreted

I am absolutely in favour of it. Yes, safeguards would be needed to protect the vulnerable, but we should all have the right to die with dignity. We don't let our beloved pets linger on in suffering, so why should humans have to?

Absolutely agree 100%

I also know someone whose mother was put on the pathway, totally against her wishes, and those of her family.

It took a long, drawn out and distressing couple of years before the hospital admitted that this was what they had done.

I understand the argument about coercion, but I think that there must be ways of countering this. I agree with other posters who have mentioned dementia - I am truly terrified of ending up like my mother, and I know that if she had had the choice she would never have wished to be in that state of bewilderment and long drawn out distress. I am comforted by the thought that I might actually have the choice, and concerned, like OldFrill, that religious dogma might win out.

My concern is the assisted dying will be a rehash of the Liverpool pathway that was withdrawn in 2014. There was evidence doctors were making the decision to end a patients life without consultation with the patient or their families. I know of two families impacted by this method, neither of whom had been consulted nor were they prepared for their family members death. It’s a difficult decision for everyone and what happens if a family member objects are their point of view going to take precedent over the patient.

There is a system of self -delivery of a quiet death for those to whom doctor assisted dying is denied as in the UK at present.

Look up 'Exit' on Google . I think you have to have belonged to Exit for three months before they will send you the booklet about drugs and method of administration. Obviously Exit is too much for most of the Grans here , and I will understand if the moderator deletes my post.

Personally, I am in favour although not sure it would (have helped) in the instance of my Gran. She led a very active life but had a stroke at 82 and from 85 onwards just sat in a geriatric hospital. She wasn't terminally ill but for 11 years she didn't know who she was, who we were, where she was and it was soul destroying to watch. Only her heart kept her alive. I know that she would not have wished that existence on her worst enemy. However, she would have been incapable of making such a decision. I am not even sure a living will would have helped her. It was so sad and I know my mother, my sisters and I would not like to endure this. I would like to think it might help us.

I have joined Dignity In Dying in the fight for this for years now having watched my Mum & my Nan suffer in their last days! I have told my son that I do not want to be hooked up to machines keeping me alive in pain & probably confusion until my body can take no more & that as he will have Power Of Attorney to make the decisions that he knows I would want! Anyone in doubt should go to Dignity In Dyings web site & read all that is required before someone is granted that end! This is not something just thrown up by a few ill informed people! I do not want to end up screaming in pain while being given meds that only take the edge of the pain & do not give any quality of life just prolong my misery because the Doctors think that they have God given right too! I fully support this & hope it is in place should I need it, though I do hope I go peacefully in my sleep! Probably not good for my family but the way I would hope to go! Right now I do wake up & thankfully say great I am still here as I want to see my Grandchildren grow up a bit more!

furzeacre579

yes with Starmer's hatred of old people it wont be long before he singles out which of us has to take the tablet and die.

Just because the Labour government has had to make hard decisions about managing the economy and has made a change to stop wasting millions by giving away money every year to people who don’t need it you conclude that Keir Starmer hates old people. Really?

B9exchange

I think it is telling that over 80% of doctors and over 80% of those working in palliative care are against assisted dying. Doctors went into the profession to try their best to heal people, with the motto engrained into their training of 'first do no harm'. Basically they don't want to be part of killing people! As a nurse many years ago we used to ease people out of this life if their pain became too much, it was never made common knowledge, and I believe that now patients and relatives are asked if they would like to be rendered unconscious in cases like this.

For me the problem of the slippery slope is insurmountable, and this is why the disabled are so against it. As with abortion, which started off with very strict criteria which were then gradually relaxed. I am all for abortion as long as it is not just used as birth control, but it seems that is effectively how it is being used now for many people.

You start off with limiting it to people judged to have less than six months to live, then you expand it to those with life limiting diseases, then to those with incurable diseases, then to adults with mental health problems, then children with mental health problems, until there are very few limits at all. If assisted dying goes through, no safeguards will prevent the expansion scope, as can be seen in countries who have started down this route.

To me it is the worry of coercion by relatives who don't want to see the house go in care fees, but more than that, just the feeling of guilt from those who feel they are becoming an expensive burden, and that it is their duty to request death to relieve others of that worry. If there was an option to save the bulk of my savings for the family, rather than spend it on care, I know that I would feel duty bound to take it.

So you're saying nurses murdered people, and got away with it. Who authorised that?

petra

keepingquiet

I'm sorry but 'booking' your own death sounds like the stuff of nightmares to me.

A nightmare is watching someone with motor neurone disease paralysed from the neck down.

Petra: . This happened to a friend of mine.

I totally agree with assisted dying after sitting with my FIL recently with dementia in no shape or form would I wish to go through such pain and indignantly or be looked after “I say that word tentatively “
As for heavier palliative care, there are not enough nurses as it is unless the entire care system changes which isn't going to happen,other than the few wonderful nurses and carers people are going to suffer as for coercion what about FIL by MIL keeping him isolated from care and help because of the money she was going to lose by him being alive if the family hadn't managed to get help by getting LPA overridden his suffering would have continued for much longer

It is appalling that hospices rely so heavily on fund raising when they do the most incredible job. Our local hospice has to raise nearly £2 million every year in order to keep going. For the most part pain can be controlled which helps the families as well. I have seen several people die (I volunteer at a Hospice) and it has been peaceful, although I know that this is not always the case. Unfortunately this is not available to everyone although our hospice does run education programmes for nursing homes, GPs, hospital doctors and other health care professionals on dealing with end of life care, but it needs so much more money so that it is there for everyone who needs it.

yes with Starmer's hatred of old people it wont be long before he singles out which of us has to take the tablet and die.

i am in favour of assisted dying having watched people i love suffer a very painful death despite receiving excellent care. I know its something i would want a choice over if i ended in up a similar situation. If the person is mentally competent, let them choose. Other countries have successfully manged to have a system in place so why can't we

Yes Yes - all very well saying pain relief - those who need it most are the very ones in poor and remote areas with no voice and no power. Nobody seems to sanction medics who permit pain...

I think that kind of decision is used day in, and day out, as a matter of course, and has been for years.
It seems a,kind and compassionate way to do things, so I'm loathe to make it all "official" with documentation and forms signed, and possibly no room for manoeuvre.

I see what you've described Luckygirl13 as compassionate end of life management. It has gone on forever. We instructed that we didn't want any interventions at the end for my husband's aunt, just to keep her comfortable. I don't believe in officiously striving to maintain life where there is no quality and no desire.

I remember your posts at that time. That was the kindest thing to do Luckygirl3 and brave of you to post here about your decision.

I made the choice for my OH's life to end. A doctor had seen him at the nursing home and said he needed blue-lighting to hospital for IV antibiotics etc. I asked them to reflect on what sort of miserable life they would be dragging him back to. He was in an appalling state of total physical dependence and living in terror due to his intractable paranoia.
No-one queried my decision, but none of the professionals suggested it themselves. Effectively he was helped to die as he was given drugs to relieve his distress and other drugs that were keeping him alive were withdrawn.
These sort of decisions are being made all the time and are effectively assisted dying.
I have to live with this decision .... thank goodness my DDs backed me up.

Yes Rosie51
That’s a worry.

Esther Rantzen just wants to 'go out' on her last hurrah and I am sick and tired of hearing about it.

Agree