Anniversary of Israeli massacre

foxie48

These are the people who went to the rally calling for "Conquer, Kick out and Resettle". This list was taken from a report in The Jerusalem Post, which I post a link to below.

"Ministers who spoke at the rally included National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir (Otzma Yehudit), Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich (RZP), Women’s Advancement Minister and Social Equality Minister May Golan (Likud), and Development of the Negev and Galilee Minister Yitzhak Wasserlauf (Otzma Yehudit).MKs who attended the rally included Ariel Kallner, Avihai Boaron, Osher Shekalim, Tally Gotliv, and Sasson Guetta from the Likud; Zvi Sukkot from the Religious Zionist Party; and Limor Son Har-Melech from Otzma Yehudit.
www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-825512

fwiw Israel Hayom, which is the most widely read newspaper in Israel is a free publication supported by adverts, a bit like Metro.

These are mainstream voices within Israel and in terms of us looking for peace opportunities and asking, "what is the plan for Gaza" it's entirely relevant to hear those voices. If our own country are at war and we were in danger we would want to know if the leadership was in fact pursuing the only options available if a cease fire were possible.

There isnt a plan for Gaza, maybe after Hamas surrender it will be clear. Palestinians will have to elect a peaceful government under the supervision of another power - probably Israel because nobody else wants the job.

Then proper aid can be supplied and rebuilding start.

@annie is equally bad to accuse someone of supporting genocide if their opinions differ.

David49

There isnt a plan for Gaza, maybe after Hamas surrender it will be clear. Palestinians will have to elect a peaceful government under the supervision of another power - probably Israel because nobody else wants the job.

Then proper aid can be supplied and rebuilding start.

Am not entirely sure that would work David, I mean it sounds like a plan but how can Palestinians even think straight let alone elect a government, most of them are driven out of their minds with grief, starvation, disease, and anger. And even if Israel did supervise a new government do you suppose the Palestinians would want thus? I imagine it would be much better to send in a peace keeping force with no skin in the game on either side until Gaza looks more like a place to call home than a moon scape and the people have been given the aid and medical care they need. Then I have no idea what happens. Probably a mediator from an Arab country that has no links with Hamas or Hezbollah could get together with Abbas and look at a means of one government representing all Palestinians. That is not what Netanyahu wants but that would have been a much better move than backing Hamas.
Israel should really steer clear of being involved in a supervisory role with this.

Am thinking Jordan as a good mediator.

I have brought this up before, but it's avoided. The West Bank is gradually being colonised with the backing of the IDF. It's very problematic talking about a 2 state solution when this is happening.

If - as reported by ABC News at the time, Hamas got 44% of the vote but, because of their election system, gained the majority seats, then clearly Hamas does not have the support of all Palestinians.

Would it be wrong to assume that among those who did not vote for Hamas, there would be some / many, who wanted the 2-State solution?

As Daniel Barenboim said, years ago now, "either we share what there is to share, or we go on killing each other".

It must follow that the majority would now want a two tier system

We don't know what the want because it's 17 years since they were able to have an election and 75% of those eligible to vote were not eligible at the last election.

Wyllow3

I have brought this up before, but it's avoided. The West Bank is gradually being colonised with the backing of the IDF. It's very problematic talking about a 2 state solution when this is happening.

Yes this has to stop if there is to be a peaceful solution to this. Right now Palestinian land and properties are being seized and given to Israelis, this is not something new. If we are to see any solution for both sides both sides must be treated equally and with respect, Palestinians must be treated like Israelis or we do indeed have an apartheid system.

Has Israel invaded Palestine?

foxie48

We don't know what the want because it's 17 years since they were able to have an election and 75% of those eligible to vote were not eligible at the last election.

... and 75% of those eligible to vote were not eligible at the last election.

A large percentage. Who have only known life 'under' Hamas.

Decades after the Oslo Accords, all the major impediments remain. God alone knows whether there will ever be peace.

Anniebach

Has Israel invaded Palestine?

@annie not sure what you mean about Israel invading Palestine.

No matter what state Gaza is in, there will be those wanting to form a new government for the future, but that’s a long way off yet.
There must be no more hamas involvement in it.

Most know what life under Hamas has brought - death and destruction. Forget a 2 state system Israel will never agree, they have won and in control. They should return Palestinian land in the West Bank but that’s not part of the Gaza solution.

When the Nazis were defeated in WW2 the 4 powers
supervised reconstruction and politics, whatever happened in the past has to be put aside for the sake of the survivors.

Gaza is part of Israel so Israel must be responsible for security if Gasa had not been allowed to elect Hamas probably 50 thousand lives would have been saved. Not to mention countless billions to rebuild Gaza, however my guess is that Hamas will cling on to power for maybe months making the suffering worse.

I too think Hamas will not give way

Hamas will not give up easily.

"Gaza is part of Israel"

Since when, David? It never was within the boundaries of the Israeli State.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip

A complicated but predictable story, firstly the strip belonged to Egypt then Palestinian refugees took refuge there until Israel occupied the strip in the late sixties until 2005. It never belonged to Israel they occupied it.
However, they say it is part of Israel, and most western governments kowtow to this, so we are where we are.

Yes the West Bank is being invaded, mile by mile, and the settlements are given IDF security and legal status as part of Israel.

But my constant attempts here to ask, "how is this justifiable" as it is basically an invasion politically permitted by Netanyahu and current war cabinet are not answered.

www.un.org/unispal/document/human-rights-council-hears-that-700000-israeli-settlers-are-living-illegally-in-the-occupied-west-bank-meeting-summary-excerpts/

Wyllow3
It isn’t justifiable. And until this is addressed and Palestinian refugees living in neighbouring countries are given the right to return, am not sure where we go in finding a solution to this problem. Obviously if Palestinians are not treated the same as Israelis with the same rights regarding their land and homes I don’t see a peaceable transition.

There may not be a two state solution in the near future but I so hope we will get there in my lifetime. What else works? The last 50 years have shown that Israel administrating & having military zones in Palestinian territories will never yield peace. Palestinians cannot be exterminated & driven out of Palestine as I still believe the world would not stand by & allow Israel to do this & they cannot be integrated into an israeli state as a religious minority because of the likelihood of persecution & apartheid.Israelis could not be integrated into a Palestinian state for the same reason. Two states, both recognised as autonomous states by the UN, with borders guaranteed by international, enforced accords. But there's no easy road from here to there.

I think the two state solution is dead in the water to be honest. The best leader of Israel over the past few decades was Yitzhak Rabin who at least tried to find a peaceful solution, since then there have been too many far right hardline leaders who win over the electorate with promises of ironclad security - the strong man syndrome - and look where that has got us. Israel has never been so insecure.
Without a more moderate leader like Rabin Israel cannot expect a peaceful solution with Palestinians, and even a more moderate leader would struggle right now because so much has now been taken away from Palestinians, their land, their homes, their rights, their lives.
How can anyone fix that.
Whatever Netanyahus end game is it certainly doesn’t include the word ‘peace’ though there could very well be a solution, it won’t be one that benefits ordinary Palestinians.

Wyllow3

"Gaza is part of Israel"

Since when, David? It never was within the boundaries of the Israeli State.

Gaza is not an independant state, since the British mandate ended first Egypt controlled Gaza, the in 1967 Israel took over and in 1994 withdrew allowing the Palestinian Authority to govern under Yasser Arafat. That decision allowed Hamas to take over, the truth is Gaza is “no man’s land” it’s not a state nor is it incorporated into another but it is de facto controlled by Israel who in normal times it is dependant on.