Anniversary of Israeli massacre

madalene

^The only country with expansionist tendencies in the region is Israel^

Mmmm, sorry, don’t agree with that.

How can one disagree with very well documented and proven fact?

Many Jews, in Israel and around the world, totally denounce Netanyahu's policies. And openly say that he does not care one bit about the fate of the hostages, and even more, that he allowed the terrible deeds of October 7th to happen, for his own aims.

Netanyahu and the IDF have massive security all around the fence- very sophisticated and constantly closely monitored. they also have the means to target any specific area with great accuracy. Hamas needed massive bulldozers to take down the very strong and huge fence. Their approach would have been seen well in advance, the taking down would have taken time, and so did reaching the kibbutz- plenty of time to strike and destroy. Why was this not done? Especially as very strong warnings and intelligence were clear some time before the attack.

Conspiracy theories not welcome on this subject thanks.For the record many Jews around the world and in Israel do agree with BN and what he and his cabinet have achieved.For the relatives of the hostages it’s a long miserable year but it was never going to be easy getting them back.

@david why do I approve of Iran?
I gave my opinion on Iran with regard to expansionist tendencies, inasmuch as grabbing land not spreading an ideology.
But if you can’t stop making foundless accusations I will report rather than rise to the bait.
Your choice.

Wyllow3

Anniebach

Why was it sung during the marches through London, they certainly were not supportive of Israel.

That police officer who said of a Jew who was watching the march He is openly Jewish ‘

No, those singing it on the Marches were not supportive of Israel:

neither are those within Israel who hold it dear, are supporting the rights of Palestinians to have a home in their lands, despite boundaries drawn in 1948.

Neither can get peace on those terms.

neither are those within Israel who hold it dear

No-one here can state that categorically.

When we did have a Gransnetter on here posting from Israel she was not received well by some and left.
I am not surprised.

The thing is the way you and most Israelis view this war is not the way the majority of people around the world view it.

Do you have evidence to back up that statement Babs03?

Fleurpepper
You are entitled to your point of view. I am entitled to mine. From what I’ve read, and I’m not an expert anymore than you are, Gaza was completely secure prior to 07/10/23. The kibbutz that was featured in the Channel4 documentary stated clearly that this particular kibbutz had existed in the same place since 1948. I’m sorry, I can’t remember the name of the kibbutz. Part of this documentary showed Hamas terrorists leaving Gaza through some wire that had been cut previously, no stone walls in sight, although I know that some parts of Gaza are enclosed by high walls.

It has been frequently claimed that Netanyahu allowed 07/10/23 to happen. That is merely an opinion and not one I share.

I don’t claim to know many Jews but I do know of a few on GN, and I have a close friendship with a Jewish couple. They believe that Hamas are the perpetrators of this horrible massacre and are exclusively to blame for what took place on 07/10/23 as do I. You are free to believe whatever conspiracies you like, but please don’t expect me to believe them too.

Allira there may be a misunderstanding with the way I phrased it just above: a page ago I reported as regards the founding principles of the Likud Party as

""The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)

a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party

ie we have forces on both sides of the borders who support occupation of the whole region. thats all I said, except that I believe both sides will have to compromise of there is to be peace

Allira

^The thing is the way you and most Israelis view this war is not the way the majority of people around the world view it.^

Do you have evidence to back up that statement Babs03?

Well Jeremy Bowen said it in a report that I sent a link to earlier in the thread, but am happy to throw this into doubt if you have links to show the contrary.

Btw obvs he didn’t mention David just that the way Israelis see the war is not the way other people around the world do.

Jeremy Bowen is a BBC journalist who spent many years reporting on various wars around the world. He was stationed in Jerusalem for several years. Journalists have opinions just like the rest of us. He may also have formed some more informed opinions during his time living on the job, but there is nothing on this earth to say that his opinions are God’s own truth. To quote The Duchess of Sussex, his opinions maybe his truth.

Yes journalists have opinions but then anything anyone writes or says is coloured by this.
So evidence is impossible. But the siege of Northern Gaza is pretty hard to dispute because members of the government are supporting it vocally. And I don’t think that is their opinion, I think that is happening.

We don't have information on how many citizens in Israel hold various different POV, and the degree they back the current regime, all we can say is that they definitely do differ.

Bezalel Smotrich for example is a government minister in the regime who supports expansionist policy

www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/24/israeli-far-right-minister-bezalel-smotrich-annex-west-bank

“Speaking at a meeting of his Religious Zionism party, Smotrich told colleagues that he was “establish[ing] facts on the ground in order to make Judea and Samaria [an Israeli term for the occupied West Bank] an integral part of the state of Israel”.

“We will establish sovereignty … first on the ground and then through legislation. I intend to legalise the young settlements [illegal outposts],” Smotrich said in comments reported by Haaretz. “My life’s mission is to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state.”

I’m not disputing the that Gaza is besieged, I’m disputing that Jeremy Bowen can be quoted as absolute evidence. Whatever he says must surely be his opinion, just as whatever I say is my opinion.

Apologies the reason I mentioned the siege is because the piece I gave a link to written by Jeremy in which he makes that particular statement was all about the Generals Plan in Northern Gaza, this was not said to haul you up about anything.

No problem, I didn’t see your link so I looked up who Jeremy Bowen is. He will have been party to rumours, facts, opinions etc when he was stationed in Jerusalem, but I think he left a fair few years ago.
I believe Hamas are responsible for what has happened since 07/10/23 whereas your view maybe somewhat different. We are allowed to disagree, it has always happened and always will.

Very true madalene and thank goodness we live in a society where we can actually do that.

Yep.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

How many Israelis support the War?.
A large majority, if an neighbouring country was bombarding the UK with rockets, attacking and kidnapping civilians the I would expect the population to want a response.
If the attackers chose to use their own population as human shields thats their choice and I wouldnt expect much sympathy.

No I don’t. I am saying that is the point I was making back in my other comment.
You are twisting everything I say in order to make me sound like a terrorist loving lunatic. Your comment will be reported because you are making highly personal accusations and cheap digs.

We don't have information on how many citizens in Israel hold various different POV, and the degree they back the current regime, all we can say is that they definitely do differ.

I woul agree that they may very well differ.

Jeremy Bowen always comes across as very reasoned and thoughtful and he does have great experience of Middle Eastern affairs.

Btw my reply was to David whose post has since been deleted.

Unless posters here AND Jeremy Bowen have canvassed hundreds of thousands of people around the world to find out their views, it all comes across as really rather presumptuous.

And given the BBC's anti-Israel bias, (Bowen being historically a part of it) a bit of a one-sided view I would say.

I think that most news channels whatever their bias would grind to a halt if they had to canvass hundreds of thousands of people.
And here on this thread none of us can canvass anyone. Is all presumption and opinion.
And seeing as Israel won’t allow embedded journalists in is very difficult to get any footage, only a few brave souls working freelance for the press have managed to get in and smuggle out footage.
Many have been killed, so I personally salute those trying to get news out to all of us to gawp at in the safety of our homes.

David49

How many Israelis support the War?.
A large majority, if an neighbouring country was bombarding the UK with rockets, attacking and kidnapping civilians the I would expect the population to want a response.
If the attackers chose to use their own population as human shields thats their choice and I wouldnt expect much sympathy.

And if a large section of the UK had been given to an ethnic or religious group that had suffered a dreadful, terrible holocaust by a third country- and then if large sections were taken, bit by bit, by settlers of the same group, forcibly, illegally, and what is left for the British people enclosed in massive fences with very strict and restrictive rules about their movement, etc. Do you thing the British population would want a response? Are you prepared to give up your home and the one of your family and friends, and live in a virtual prison?

I certainly would not.

Some of our relatives lost their home, land and everything during the Apartheid regime, in South Africa. They supported Nelson Mandela. I can totally understand this.