Have the Conservatives signed their own death warrant?

In London last week I took a taxi from Paddington into the centre and I was surprised to see so many shops with Arab signs on the Edgware Road. Seems to have changed since my day.

Where I live there are a couple of fairly large towns nearby that are completely Chinese. Many of the signs are in Chinese ,all the food is Chinese and the market is really good- cheap and very exotic fruits and veggies. If you go there you are likely to be the only non Chinese person. No aggression or anything like that but different languages - mostly Vietnamese and Mandarin. Very different from when we lived here at first. This has happened in the last 10-15 years. We go there instead of visiting Singapore or Hong Kong, only 15 kms away.

MaizieD

^Windrush happened because there was no official identity proof available,^

Much of that is due to the fact that, as it was discovered when the Windrush scandal was high profile, that the Home Office had destroyed the records of their entry to the UK. Which would be documents such as the Windrush' records of passengers and their disembarkation in the UK.

I didn't know the disembarkation records were deleted. My husband came here as a baby from a Commonwealth country in 1948 and when my DD was doing a family tree she certainly found his details and was able to tell him the date he arrived here which he didn't know. He knew it was 1948, he knew it was the summer but he had no idea of the month or day of the month.

Fortunately he didn't have any Windrush issues as when the nationality rules were changed, can't remember if it was the 70s or 80s, he sorted it all out then. It was very straightforward at that time. He wasn't happy about doing it as he said he was born British so why did he need to apply but I did manage to persuade him and I'm thankful for that.

Fleurpepper

What choice do they have since they were handed a bankrupt country. People don't want them to tax the very rich, don't want them to tax the middle, don't want them to tax the elderly who don't need help. So who?

They are not the ones that did the damage- what are they supposed to do?

So bankrutp, won't reveal how either, and most I believe money earmarked for future projects, they could send 11 billion plus to foreign countries, they could pay off already well paid train drivers,and Dr's, who are already threatening strikes next year. They can keep forking out billions to house illegal immigrants, not giving any deterrant to stop them coming across. So blah blah, by the time Labour have finished the country will be in an even worse state.

Windrush happened because there was no official identity proof available,

Much of that is due to the fact that, as it was discovered when the Windrush scandal was high profile, that the Home Office had destroyed the records of their entry to the UK. Which would be documents such as the Windrush' records of passengers and their disembarkation in the UK.

fleurpepper with a bankruptcy looming my personal preference is not to start up a very spurious Gr British Energy costing billions we don’t have. I have a more cautious approach and would have waited until I knew what I was doing. Best not say follow the science because look where that ended up.

What choice do they have since they were handed a bankrupt country. People don't want them to tax the very rich, don't want them to tax the middle, don't want them to tax the elderly who don't need help. So who?

They are not the ones that did the damage- what are they supposed to do?

Trueloveways

As a Labour supporter the Conservatives at the moment are the gift that keeps on giving.

And Labour are the party that just keeps taking, suits, designer glasses, concert tickets, apartment stays in New York, and don’t forget the Winter fuel allowance from pensions!

Wyllow3

The Windrush Scandal was dreadful -I doubt the present government would want this to happen - I hope that relevant organisations are taking this up, SporeRB.

For legal migrants there isn’t a problem IF they renew their passports or other official identity. Windrush happened because there was no official identity proof available, travelling overseas for a holiday isn’t a problem because you have to have a passport to travel.

Any update on the suppression please?

The Windrush Scandal was dreadful -I doubt the present government would want this to happen - I hope that relevant organisations are taking this up, SporeRB.

BevSec, I don’t think UK will become a Muslim country.

I live in a predominately white small market town in East Midlands. For the last 30+ years, whenever I went to the town, I am one of the few non-white person around.

After Brexit, there seems to be a huge influx of people from non-European countries. This could be part of the trade deal signed by Liz Truss.

Majority are Africans, followed by Indians and then East Asians and the odd one or two Muslims. I do find it kind of strange because I am not use to it.

My main concern is:- with the government not able to control immigration, will they then target people with legal status because they are an easy target.

Right now, the UK government is changing the visas for foreigners from paper based to digital from the 1st of January 2025.

However, they failed to notify 200k people mostly the older generation (including myself) of this immigration change.

Also the immigration department expect to see some kind of evidence for every year lived in the UK, which in my opinion, is an impossible task for some people. Who keep say council tax letters or bank statements for the last 30+ years, even the council and the bank do not keep letters on file for that long.

They will not be deported but if they leave the country for say holiday, they might not be able to return to the UK.

IMHO, this is another Windrush scandal waiting to happen.

This is how many Spaniards and French etc., feel about British immigrants in parts of the world. Own shops, churches, schools, etc. to such an extent that locals feel strangers in their own land

Fleurpepper then I assume you have sympathy for the Brits who are experiencing this here in the U.K. ?

GrannyGravy13

LizzieDrip

Wyllow same!

That’s why I genuinely struggle with the notion that immigration is the ‘root of all our problems’… and I would genuinely like someone who believes this to explain their reasoning to me using objective fact rather than subjective opinion.

I haven’t yet come across anyone willing / able to do so.

I spent over six years living in a central London Borough, I went to primary and then onto Grammar School there. White faces were the norm, I can remember one mixed race family at primary, along with a couple of Asian/Black girls at senior school. My parents had a pub and restaurant, the clientele was predominantly white.

I returned with DH several years ago and it had a totally different vibe

Gone were the traditional shops I remembered, replaced by Halal Butchers, Caribbean and Asian food shops, the clothes shops were mainly selling Saris or other ethnic items.

The restaurants takeaways were predominantly Asian, Caribbean Chicken, kebabs etc., gone were the traditional fish and chip shops, pie and mash shops or fish stalls, significantly less pubs and we couldn’t see any Chinese takeaways. The street market was mainly imported veggies (not traditional British

On the edge of the Borough it has been gentrified, with many £million plus three story old houses. Nearby are the deli’s artisan shops and of course a Waitrose and M & S Food-hall.

These two areas couldn’t be more different culturally and I imagine financially.

I am not judging, just giving an example of how a community I knew well has changed over the years, and I do know a few people who still live there (both areas) and their perceptions of the change.

If where you grew up and have lived all of your life has changed out of all recognition some folks will embrace the change and others will feel as if there home town has been ^taken over^

Yes, I can understand how some people would feel about it. Others would embrace it.

This is how many Spaniards and French, etc, feel about British immigrants in parts of the world. Own shops, Churches, schools, etc, to such an extent that locals feel strangers in their own land.

David49

growstuff

Allira

Australian Aboriginal people have no Neanderthal DNA although they may have Denisovan DNA.

Hmm ... they do, according to some of the latest research.

www.scimex.org/newsfeed/neanderthal-blood-genetically-linked-to-aboriginal-aussies

Aboriginal populations developed in isolation with ancient genes, mixing of later genetic changes did not affect them, many cultures became extinct, absorbed into later populations over thousands of years

I don't really want to get side-tracked on this, but it appears that the ancestors of aboriginal populations did breed with Neanderthals (and probably Denisovans) on their way out of Africa. Yes, it's true that they developed largely in isolation, but they must have already been carrying Neanderthal genes.

The point I was making is that, scientifically, we're all one race.

Oops
the opposite ls social integration

Fleurpepper

The Celts hated the Romans. The Vikings were hated by all. The Anglo-Saxons hated the Normans. The Picts hated the Southerners. The Hugnenots were fairly well tolerated, somehow. Irish and Italians were despised. And on, and on. And yet at some point, the mix formed some kind of 'identity'. This is the nature of British culture, a huge mix. At what time did it become 'fixed' as THE one, with every other wave becoming a threat and an invasion?

We moved to Leicester the same year as the Ugandan Asians. The backlash was really bad, never mind when the Park next to the Prison was re-named 'Mandela Park'. We watched in amazement as people sold houses to move away from those immigrants, as people moved their kids to some schools as inner city immigrants were bused out to 'dilute' inner city schools. Those immigrants who completely refurbished City areas, then soon moved to the weatlhy suburbs and sent their own kids to the very Private Schools the above had sent their kids to to avoid being in contact. Who became business owners, dentists, surgeons, GPs, ophtalmologists, Lawyers, Judges. It was just fascinating to watch. Especially as we never did, as immigrants ourselves, experience any of the discrimination they did.

The number of times we were told 'oh, we don't mean you- you are welcome, you'- and we cringed in 'shame'.

That happens now those that can afford to move to a “better” neighbourhood, leaving behind the problems that poverty brings. I’m sure many/most on this forum have done just that, better housing, better schools, better community, whatever the reason it’s moving away from those you don’t like, the

The Celts hated the Romans. The Vikings were hated by all. The Anglo-Saxons hated the Normans. The Picts hated the Southerners. The Hugnenots were fairly well tolerated, somehow. Irish and Italians were despised. And on, and on. And yet at some point, the mix formed some kind of 'identity'. This is the nature of British culture, a huge mix. At what time did it become 'fixed' as THE one, with every other wave becoming a threat and an invasion?

We moved to Leicester the same year as the Ugandan Asians. The backlash was really bad, never mind when the Park next to the Prison was re-named 'Mandela Park'. We watched in amazement as people sold houses to move away from those immigrants, as people moved their kids to some schools as inner city immigrants were bused out to 'dilute' inner city schools. Those immigrants who completely refurbished City areas, then soon moved to the weatlhy suburbs and sent their own kids to the very Private Schools the above had sent their kids to to avoid being in contact. Who became business owners, dentists, surgeons, GPs, ophtalmologists, Lawyers, Judges. It was just fascinating to watch. Especially as we never did, as immigrants ourselves, experience any of the discrimination they did.

The number of times we were told 'oh, we don't mean you- you are welcome, you'- and we cringed in 'shame'.

growstuff

Allira

Australian Aboriginal people have no Neanderthal DNA although they may have Denisovan DNA.

Hmm ... they do, according to some of the latest research.

www.scimex.org/newsfeed/neanderthal-blood-genetically-linked-to-aboriginal-aussies

Oh!

LizzieDrip

Wyllow same!

That’s why I genuinely struggle with the notion that immigration is the ‘root of all our problems’… and I would genuinely like someone who believes this to explain their reasoning to me using objective fact rather than subjective opinion.

I haven’t yet come across anyone willing / able to do so.

I spent over six years living in a central London Borough, I went to primary and then onto Grammar School there. White faces were the norm, I can remember one mixed race family at primary, along with a couple of Asian/Black girls at senior school. My parents had a pub and restaurant, the clientele was predominantly white.

I returned with DH several years ago and it had a totally different vibe

Gone were the traditional shops I remembered, replaced by Halal Butchers, Caribbean and Asian food shops, the clothes shops were mainly selling Saris or other ethnic items.

The restaurants takeaways were predominantly Asian, Caribbean Chicken, kebabs etc., gone were the traditional fish and chip shops, pie and mash shops or fish stalls, significantly less pubs and we couldn’t see any Chinese takeaways. The street market was mainly imported veggies (not traditional British

On the edge of the Borough it has been gentrified, with many £million plus three story old houses. Nearby are the deli’s artisan shops and of course a Waitrose and M & S Food-hall.

These two areas couldn’t be more different culturally and I imagine financially.

I am not judging, just giving an example of how a community I knew well has changed over the years, and I do know a few people who still live there (both areas) and their perceptions of the change.

If where you grew up and have lived all of your life has changed out of all recognition some folks will embrace the change and others will feel as if there home town has been taken over

Wyllow same!

That’s why I genuinely struggle with the notion that immigration is the ‘root of all our problems’… and I would genuinely like someone who believes this to explain their reasoning to me using objective fact rather than subjective opinion.

I haven’t yet come across anyone willing / able to do so.

growstuff

Allira

Australian Aboriginal people have no Neanderthal DNA although they may have Denisovan DNA.

Hmm ... they do, according to some of the latest research.

www.scimex.org/newsfeed/neanderthal-blood-genetically-linked-to-aboriginal-aussies

Aboriginal populations developed in isolation with ancient genes, mixing of later genetic changes did not affect them, many cultures became extinct, absorbed into later populations over thousands of years

GrannyGravy13

Wyllow3 I am beginning to think that it is part of human nature to demonise the so called extremes of any race or culture.

It is just baseline stereotyping.

I don't really know GG13. I'm just hoping the better parts of human nature can also be brought into the equation of discussions and policy?
I was so strongly brought up in an "accepting other cultures as normal but not uncritically" home perhaps idealistically to a certain point

I can only reflect how different it must be if brought up believing "We" are intrinsically better and all our ills are caused by "them" whether subtle or out there "in your face".

GrannyGravy13

Wyllow3 I am beginning to think that it is part of human nature to demonise the so called extremes of any race or culture.

It is just baseline stereotyping.

I've thought that for a long time. It's why I'm so sceptical about any sort of stereotyping.

David49

growstuff

I don't think the term " invasion" helps anybody.

I disagree. It helps the grifters who exploit such fears and are looking for scapegoats.

It’s not just grifters who dislike immigrants I hear plenty of comments from well off individuals, women are just as bad as men. A lot are disaffected by politics in general, reading the popular press that’s hardly surprising

I agree with you, but I was referring to people whom talk of invasion actually helps.