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Rachel Reeves To Be The New George Osborne?

(66 Posts)
mae13 Sun 13-Oct-24 02:16:45

Remember him? His heyday was 2013 when he introduced the infamous Bedroom Tax and swept away 100% exemption from Council Tax for the unemployed and those surviving on low incomes.

Remember 2013? He found it pretty painless to financially crucify the vulnerable, the sick and the powerless and I fully expect Ms Reeves - with the endorsement of Kier Starmer - to do a re-run of a similar strategy.

(Whatever became of Osborne? Not that I much give a toss.)

vegansrock Sun 13-Oct-24 06:29:52

George Osborne is a millionaire and chair of the British Museum amongst other things.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 13-Oct-24 07:22:21

A more nuanced analysis of what choices Reeves may have.

Challenge 1
Ending austerity
With local government slashed, prisons at capacity and a court case backlog, averting austerity is easier said than done. Plans inherited from Jeremy Hunt were for some public services to be cut even more over this parliament. There are plans to raise spending on schools, defence and the NHS, but other departments are suffering, including the Home Office. Avoiding further cuts will require £20bn of extra spending, and more if Reeves wants to undo the legacy of previous bouts of austerity.
Challenge 2
Funding public services
The chancellor has been clear she plans to balance day-to-day public spending with tax receipts, probably by the end of the parliament. So any extra money for public services will require tax rises, on top of the £24bn already announced by Hunt.
Given that Reeves has promised not to touch VAT, income tax and national insurance, which account for three-quarters of all tax revenues, her room for manoeuvre is limited.
But other tax options are available. Capital gains tax is ripe for reform, as rates are unjustifiably lower than on other forms of income. For example, the top rate of tax on employment income is 53%, but some capital gains face a top rate of only 20%.
Reeves should also make CGT harder to avoid by closing loopholes, including those allowing the wealthy to leave the country without paying tax. Overall, this package of changes could raise around £12bn. Some will complain that capital will just leave the country (hence the exit charge), but equalising the tax regime will generate revenue and leave a better system.
Inheritance tax is much hated, despite fewer than one in 20 estates paying it. That’s partly because the super wealthy are often able to avoid it altogether. Clamping down on loopholes would be fair, and could raise around £2bn.
Pension taxation is another area for reform, but the chancellor must be careful not to discourage people from saving. That is likely to rule out cutting pensions tax relief, but an alternative would be to apply NI to employers’ pension contributions. Doing so would raise £8bn even after combining this with a move to exclude workers’ contributions from NI to make their savings go further. Critics will argue that this will disincentivise employers from putting more into workers’ pension pots. But it remains the simplest and least damaging way to raise extra revenue from pensions.
Challenge 3
Investing in Britain’s future
The chancellor wants to put growth at the heart of her budget. Expect lots of policy announcements, backed by increased public investment and infrastructure spending. But again, she has inherited plans from Hunt to scale back public investment. If she instead tried to maintain this at 2.4% of GDP, that would involve around £30bn a year of extra spending by the end of the parliament.
Providing the extra investment needed inour public services and infrastructure – from modernising the energy grid to building homes and better transport links – within the current fiscal rules would require major tax rises or spending cuts elsewhere. That is not realistic, so the chancellor has indicated she will tweak the existing rule of debt having to fall as a share of GDP by the end of the forecast period.
Better would be a new “public sector net worth” rule that recognises Britain’s public assets and liabilities. This, accompanied by scrutiny of infrastructure spending to ensure value for money and well-planned projects, would reassure markets that government spending is under control. It would also help deliver the investment Britain so badly needs.

Resolution Foundation.

Calendargirl Sun 13-Oct-24 07:32:24

but the chancellor must be careful not to discourage people from saving

Many of us have saved all our lives, and have no wish to see any of it disappear in inheritance tax. It’s money intended to pay for our care in old age if needed, plus help to stay in our own homes, as we will be self funders if nursing home is required. Plus the ability to pay for new hips or knees instead of waiting for years if in pain.

Yes, let’s not discourage saving!

eazybee Sun 13-Oct-24 07:58:01

I don't think George Osborne ever dyed his hair orange,

LadyGracie Sun 13-Oct-24 08:03:47

Agreed mae13

Jaxjacky Sun 13-Oct-24 08:15:00

As inheritance tax by its very nature kicks in when we’re dead our savings would still be there for those eventualities Calendargirl so I don’t understand your point?

Calendargirl Sun 13-Oct-24 09:26:23

If my savings are not required to pay for our care or medical needs, then I hope it is there to help my children and grandchildren, not to go in some government black hole.

It’s money we have worked for and saved for. Otherwise why bother?

That’s my point Jaxjacky. I already pay enough tax one way or another, and hope my family aren’t paying it after my death, because yes, I know it’s not me paying it.

But it’s still my money we are talking about.

keepingquiet Sun 13-Oct-24 09:34:18

eazybee

I don't think George Osborne ever dyed his hair orange,

What a facile remark.

There is no comparison between Osborne's failed ill thought- out austerity and Reeves' plan for growth.

BevSec Sun 13-Oct-24 09:39:54

Calendargirl, quite so, I want every penny to go to my children.

GrannyGravy13 Sun 13-Oct-24 09:48:11

I 100% agree with Calendargirl

Oreo Sun 13-Oct-24 09:53:44

eazybee

I don't think George Osborne ever dyed his hair orange,

I can’t imagine why anyone would choose to! 😄

Wyllow3 Sun 13-Oct-24 09:54:56

Thank you so much for the summary, WWM. What a near impossible situation to be in.

A problem in the UK is that we grumble at how difficult it is with services as they are, but mostly don't want to actually pay for them.

Inheriting a situation where promises were made on spending raising expectations - but not how it would be financed is a particularly difficult situation to step into. Sunak saying, alongside this, that he would cut 17 million on taxes - it never could add up?

escaped Sun 13-Oct-24 09:55:19

I don't get the orange hair comment???
Is it to do with this?

Oreo Sun 13-Oct-24 09:56:08

It’s been a rocky start to RR and her Chancellorship hasn’t it? Just have to hope that things will really get better.IMV she should never have ruled out any rises to any taxes in the first place, now she’s painted herself into a corner.

Wyllow3 Sun 13-Oct-24 10:03:48

In terms of rises in taxes, in the Resolution summary above, she was specific

"Given that Reeves has promised not to touch VAT, income tax and national insurance, which account for three-quarters of all tax revenues, her room for manoeuvre is limited".

So not ruling out all tax rises?

Oreo Sun 13-Oct-24 10:08:29

Three quarters of all tax revenues, that speaks for itself dunnit?
Employers will now have to pay more NI and there’s a few other taxes that could go up, but the majority of money comes from all the things that RR has ruled out!

Aveline Sun 13-Oct-24 10:14:58

So the interest on my savings is 'unearned income'. Why bother saving?

LizzieDrip Sun 13-Oct-24 11:00:23

IMV she should never have ruled out any rises to any taxes in the first place, now she’s painted herself into a corner

I agree Oreo.

I wish Labour had said that some tax rises would be necessary, and had fought their election campaign on that premise. I understand why they didn’t.

However, we have to accept that public services need to be paid for.

David49 Sun 13-Oct-24 11:21:00

Reeves has restricted taxation changes but there are plenty of other ways revenue can be gained, spending restricted and benefits reduced for those that don’t need them.

Cossy Sun 13-Oct-24 11:23:47

Wyllow3

Thank you so much for the summary, WWM. What a near impossible situation to be in.

A problem in the UK is that we grumble at how difficult it is with services as they are, but mostly don't want to actually pay for them.

Inheriting a situation where promises were made on spending raising expectations - but not how it would be financed is a particularly difficult situation to step into. Sunak saying, alongside this, that he would cut 17 million on taxes - it never could add up?

I agree.

At the risk of being a bore, why don’t we just be a tad more patient, stop speculating, and wait for the actual budget.

Cossy Sun 13-Oct-24 11:27:20

Oreo

It’s been a rocky start to RR and her Chancellorship hasn’t it? Just have to hope that things will really get better.IMV she should never have ruled out any rises to any taxes in the first place, now she’s painted herself into a corner.

But she didn’t rule out ALL tax increases, neither did the Labour Party, she specifically ruled out increasing certain taxes, certainly not all

GrannyGravy13 Sun 13-Oct-24 11:28:43

Aveline

So the interest on my savings is 'unearned income'. Why bother saving?

As far as I am aware.

If you pay basic rate tax any interest earned over £1,000 is taxable

The next tax band is allowed £500 earned interest tax free.

The highest rate tax payers have to pay tax on all interest earned.

eazybee Sun 13-Oct-24 11:30:38

Keeping Quiet, my remark, intentionally facile.

There is no comparison between Osborne's failed ill thought- out austerity and Reeves' plan for growth.
Obviously not: Reeves ' plan has not yet been implemented,
The reason for the Austerity Programme:

'I am afraid there is no money'.
Liam Byrne 2015. Labour Ex-Chief secretary to the Treasury.

Mamie Sun 13-Oct-24 11:35:35

eazybee

*Keeping Quiet*, my remark, intentionally facile.

There is no comparison between Osborne's failed ill thought- out austerity and Reeves' plan for growth.
Obviously not: Reeves ' plan has not yet been implemented,
The reason for the Austerity Programme:

'I am afraid there is no money'.
Liam Byrne 2015. Labour Ex-Chief secretary to the Treasury.

Reggie Maudling outgoing Tory Chancellor to Jim Callaghan. 1964
"Good luck, old cock, sorry to leave it in such a mess.”