Will Messrs Reeves and Raynor Still Be Around This Time Next Year?

From those of us who could have afforded to stay at home but wouldn’t have wanted to do you mean GrannyGravy13, or are you assuming we were living hand to mouth and were jealous of those who didn’t work? If you think that you’re a mile out I’m afraid.

GrannyGravy13

I am sensing some resentment for people who are able to stay at home, look after their children and when the children are school age take them to and pick them up.

Envy maybe?

No no no GG13. You must be wrong.

Casdon

From those of us who could have afforded to stay at home but wouldn’t have wanted to do you mean GrannyGravy13, or are you assuming we were living hand to mouth and were jealous of those who didn’t work? If you think that you’re a mile out I’m afraid.

It is personal choice, but to denigrate those who choose to stay home and rear their children as not contributing to society is an insult to stay at home parents.

I’m not denigrating those who stay at home though, I’m saying that it may become less of an option if the NI is not paid for them, which is in the gift of any government to change?
I do think it’s a bit patronising to suggest that those who work are envious of those who don’t though - I can only speak for myself but I’d have been crawling the walls at home, I loved the challenge of work and was a much better parent for it. We are all different.

GrannyGravy13

I am sensing some resentment for people who are able to stay at home, look after their children and when the children are school age take them to and pick them up.

Envy maybe?

No.

You may see things through the lens of envy, but that is not reason enough to assume that others do likewise.

I am not envious of those who expect others to pay for their lifestyles, but I do get tired of hearing their moans when their benefits are cut.

GrannyGravy13

Casdon

From those of us who could have afforded to stay at home but wouldn’t have wanted to do you mean GrannyGravy13, or are you assuming we were living hand to mouth and were jealous of those who didn’t work? If you think that you’re a mile out I’m afraid.

It is personal choice, but to denigrate those who choose to stay home and rear their children as not contributing to society is an insult to stay at home parents.

It has been 'personal choice' because others have been obliged to pay for it up to now.

It will be interesting to see whether that changes if the 'personal choice' has to be paid for by those who choose it though.

I agree with your post, Casdon.

Doodledog the last Conservative government set up changes to increase free childcare for working parents and the taxpayer is footing the bill.

I do get tired of hearing their moans when their benefits are cut

Who are the people who are choosing not to go out to work and are moaning because their benefits are being cut?

Casdon

I’m not denigrating those who stay at home though, I’m saying that it may become less of an option if the NI is not paid for them, which is in the gift of any government to change?
I do think it’s a bit patronising to suggest that those who work are envious of those who don’t though - I can only speak for myself but I’d have been crawling the walls at home, I loved the challenge of work and was a much better parent for it. We are all different.

It depends how long you were a SAHM. One child? Four or five years?
More children and it could be longer.

I wasn't crawling the walls at home because there is so much opportunity out there, so many needing your skills as a volunteer and there is no need to be housebound.
I don't understand why anyone thinks that a SAHM just sits at home or does housework all day long.
🤔

It has been 'personal choice' because others have been obliged to pay for it up to now.

This is something you have never explained, Doodledog, so we remain bemused.

What exactly are others paying for?

ronib

Doodledog the last Conservative government set up changes to increase free childcare for working parents and the taxpayer is footing the bill.

Those parents who went out to work were probably paying tax.

Allira

Casdon

I’m not denigrating those who stay at home though, I’m saying that it may become less of an option if the NI is not paid for them, which is in the gift of any government to change?
I do think it’s a bit patronising to suggest that those who work are envious of those who don’t though - I can only speak for myself but I’d have been crawling the walls at home, I loved the challenge of work and was a much better parent for it. We are all different.

It depends how long you were a SAHM. One child? Four or five years?
More children and it could be longer.

I wasn't crawling the walls at home because there is so much opportunity out there, so many needing your skills as a volunteer and there is no need to be housebound.
I don't understand why anyone thinks that a SAHM just sits at home or does housework all day long.
🤔

I didn’t say a SAHM spends all day doing housework Allira, you’re putting words in my mouth. I said I would have been crawling up the walls with boredom, not that other people would be. I’m not knocking volunteering, I do it now - but it’s not as academically challenging as a career, and it wouldn’t have been right for me, or for my children. I don’t understand why people feel the need to try to persuade others that what they did is the right thing to do - we all made our own choices, and did our own thing, there isn’t a right or wrong.

petra

ronib

Doodledog the last Conservative government set up changes to increase free childcare for working parents and the taxpayer is footing the bill.

Those parents who went out to work were probably paying tax.

The one working parent of a SAHP would be paying tax to subsidise the nursery fees of others who choose to both work.

It's how the system works. Childless people help to pay for the education and healthcare of people who have children.
Retired people often are taxpayers but do not have children in nursery or education.

It is how society works. We are all supporting each other in one way or another.

I don’t understand why people feel the need to try to persuade others that what they did is the right thing to do

Me neither Casdon. I am pointing out the alternatives but I am not trying to persuade anyone that what they choose to do is right or wrong.

That is another poster's agenda, not mine.
I am not the one condemning choice.

Allira I am totally pro choice.

Doodledog

ronib

I really don’t like the hype against a stay at home parent or unpaid carers looking after family. It’s shameful imo.

Shameful? Hype? No. It is shining a light on privilege.

Carers are an entirely different matter, and IMO it is shameful to put them in the same category.

What kind of privilege Doodledog?

GrannyGravy13

I am sensing some resentment for people who are able to stay at home, look after their children and when the children are school age take them to and pick them up.

Envy maybe?

👏👏👏👏

What kind of privilege Doodledog?
The kind of privileges I and others experienced when our DC were small 45+ years ago , ie home-made or hand-me-down clothes, going without, no holidays abroad etc. That kind of "privilege" because there were no nurseries.

Doodledog
I don’t understand why people feel the need to try to persuade others that what they did is the right thing to do

That is the strangest comment I’ve read when I frequently read what you think people should do . . .

School hours: usually 9 am to 3.30 pm.
There may be breakfast and after school clubs, a newish innovation which may help.

Working hours - possibly 9 am to 5.30 pm in an office?
Could be shift work eg for nurses could be 12, 10 or 8 hour shifts. Police officers - rotating shifts which is impossible if the other parent works away.
Some work requires a person to work extra hours if the situation demands it. Mine did.

Allira

^What kind of privilege Doodledog?^
The kind of privileges I and others experienced when our DC were small 45+ years ago , ie home-made or hand-me-down clothes, going without, no holidays abroad etc. That kind of "privilege" because there were no nurseries.

Exactly.

And the ‘benefit’ I received was Child Benefit, paid to the mothers of all children, whether their mother worked or not. Dennis Healey thought giving mothers a ‘benefit’ for all their children, whether the mother worked or not, was going to benefit the children. He was a Labour politician and he was right.

I was a SAHM for a number of years, the identifying circumstances of which I'm not prepared to divulge. In my defence I put in virtually two full school days as a volunteer in their primary school listening to children read, teaching others how to knit, or doing pottery (my speciality) with them. On one day a month I volunteered at an old peoples lunch club which involved a full day of preparation, cooking, serving and clearing up. I wasn't paid for any of this and therefore paid no income tax or national insurance. What an absolute scrounger and ne'er do well I was!! I really don't deserve the pension I now receive courtesy of paying some years of voluntary contributions and still I'm a little short because of some incomplete years. I'd suggest nobody does any voluntary work, insist on being paid the going rate, otherwie you'll be regarded s a parasite on the rest of humanity!!

And just to add how many full time working parents could put two full days of volunteering into the primary school every week plus a different full day once a month for an old folk's lunch club? But hey ho those working parents were so much more valuable than any non-worker aka as someone who didn't pay income tax or national insurance. Isn't it rather telling that only paid employment is of any value? The whole voluntary section should go on strike, I think we'd then see how much useless unpaid volunteers contribute to society.
I was so hard up at times we relied on the Co-op book of stamps to get food for that day..... #parasites are us

I have never said that anyone is not valuable.

I have never said what I think others should or shouldn't do, either.

I would love to see the return of non-means-tested child benefit, which has nothing to do with my views on people paying or not paying tax. I would also love to see the eradication of child poverty, and much more investment in education.

For the millionth time, my views are simply that we all benefit from living in a country where there are things like eduction, health, welfare and so on free at the point of use, and IMO that is a good thing. People who work provide the things they make or the services they provide, and also pay taxes on their income. Those who don't do not, but still benefit from living in a country which provides for them. Spending money someone else has earned is not paying tax.

Whenever this comes up people assume it is a dig at SAHPs, which it is not. It applies to anyone who is able to work but chooses not to, and is about contributing financially, not a personal criticism.

I have repeatedly said that we all do what is right for us, and our individual circumstances. I don't know how else I can say it, but however much people insist on taking it as a personal criticism and getting defensive will not change the fact that it is not.

Oh, and not that it's relevant, but I also did voluntary work, and still do .

but however much people insist on taking it as a personal criticism and getting defensive will not change the fact that it is not.
I don’t take it as personal criticism, I take it as a continuous criticism of anyone including me, who doesn’t fit with how you see as what people should do
and you getting defensive will not change that perception.