Sir K claims "a budget for Working People", ha!!!

I think that if many of you would accept that your taxes don't actually pay for anything you'd be much happier people...

(or perhaps not, you'd have nothing left to whip up the hate about..😁)

Exactly Grunty tax deductable not paid for in full.

deductible

If people recognised that Rachel Reeves did what all MPs do, which is allowed within the rules, the dig would not be about her but about the iniquity of the expenses system. Or maybe, if not gullible, they do recognise that fact, but choose to ignore it to try to discredit her and manipulate other people to believe she did something against the rules?

Grunty, completely agree with you, our government are a bunch of shysters.

See post at 19.07 Casdon, not targeted at Reeves especially but I'm quite comfortable if that's what you choose to think. Fill your boots.

I am fed up with being bullied and threatened and made to feel anxious and worried about the future by Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves .... and I know that many many people feel the same.

Just because you can do something Casdon doesn't mean you should. A money/free bee grabbing PM and Chancellor are not what you want warning the country that things are going to be tough for everyone except it seems themselves.

You are definitely not alone Sparklefizz

Grunty

See post at 19.07 Casdon, not targeted at Reeves especially but I'm quite comfortable if that's what you choose to think. Fill your boots.

That’s exactly what I think Grunty, but I won’t be filling my boots on it.

Whatever 💁

Smileless2012

Just because you can do something Casdon doesn't mean you should. A money/free bee grabbing PM and Chancellor are not what you want warning the country that things are going to be tough for everyone except it seems themselves.

It doesn’t bother me when people abide by the rules that they work within Smileless. It worries me when they don’t. I’m not expecting a paragon of virtue as chancellor, I am expecting competence in government, and somebody who sticks within the fiscal rules.

MaizieD

I think that if many of you would accept that your taxes don't actually pay for anything you'd be much happier people...

(or perhaps not, you'd have nothing left to whip up the hate about..😁)

And yet you chose to post a chart accompanied by the words For the posters getting their underwear contorted about what the 'taxpayers' money' is spent on. as an illustration?

Regardless of whether or not our taxes actually 'pay' for anything, we are all aware of the deduction element from the money we have that is attributable to taxes.

growstuff Do MPs not come under PAYE, if so it would indicate they are not 'workers' under one of the current definitions? Tax deductible is not the same as full reimbursement, I'm surprised you didn't notice that. Can a private individual, not a business owner, also claim an accountant's cost as tax deductible simply because they didn't want to fill in their own tax form? Or maybe like an MP get full reimbursement!

Casdon

Smileless2012

Just because you can do something Casdon doesn't mean you should. A money/free bee grabbing PM and Chancellor are not what you want warning the country that things are going to be tough for everyone except it seems themselves.

It doesn’t bother me when people abide by the rules that they work within Smileless. It worries me when they don’t. I’m not expecting a paragon of virtue as chancellor, I am expecting competence in government, and somebody who sticks within the fiscal rules.

The tax avoidance practised by many of the affluent is perfectly legal, so I assume you really have no problem with that either, and have no desire to close any of the methods used? If they're abiding by the rules that's hunky-dory and they're not to be criticised.

As long as there is a cap Rosie51, legal tax avoidance doesn’t worry me. I do object to the wealthiest in society not having to adhere to any cap so they make use of every tax loophole available.

Rosie51 Apparently, the legal work status of MPs is as "office holders". MPs don't come under PAYE. Currently, they are free to have other jobs (either with a contract or ad hoc), which would presumably be self-employment.

They are paid directly by the state via IPSA rather than the House of Commons or their political parties. I haven't seen their actual contract, but presumably there is something about paying for accountants, just as there is for living expenses.

I agree with you that a "normal" person couldn't claim all of an accountant's fees, but for many this will still be 40%, so it's not true that "Joe Bloggs" would have to pay the whole lot.

PS. No, a private individual can't deduct an accountant's fees for tax purposes, but he/she could always turn the source of income into a business and claim them.

We have plenty of accountants on here, who I'm sure could explain it better than I can.

Casdon

As long as there is a cap Rosie51, legal tax avoidance doesn’t worry me. I do object to the wealthiest in society not having to adhere to any cap so they make use of every tax loophole available.

But why shouldn't they make use of every tax loophole available as long as it's legal? I thought legality was the crux of your argument, if there's no legal cap, then there's no cap. Why object? You wouldn't be trying to hold them to a different moral structure would you?

Personally I think they're totally lacking in any moral compass at all, but that's just my opinion and I doubt any would care.

growstuff my point was could anyone solely employed on PAYE claim an accountant's fees as tax deductible? I think not, but I'm happy to be corrected.

growstuff I see you've answered my question while I was typing, thank you. I don't quite see the logic in these 'loopholes' and would rather see fairness for all.

I've never known a budget like it when the poor, the old, the sick and vulnerable are preached at and harried in advance .... are deliberately made to feel frightened and worried. It's a disgrace and I will never forget it or forgive them for it whilst they have been accepting freebies! Ha!

There will be an epidemic of depression this winter amongst the general population.

Rosie51

Casdon

As long as there is a cap Rosie51, legal tax avoidance doesn’t worry me. I do object to the wealthiest in society not having to adhere to any cap so they make use of every tax loophole available.

But why shouldn't they make use of every tax loophole available as long as it's legal? I thought legality was the crux of your argument, if there's no legal cap, then there's no cap. Why object? You wouldn't be trying to hold them to a different moral structure would you?

Personally I think they're totally lacking in any moral compass at all, but that's just my opinion and I doubt any would care.

growstuff my point was could anyone solely employed on PAYE claim an accountant's fees as tax deductible? I think not, but I'm happy to be corrected.

Because it perpetuates very rich people getting richer at the expense of everybody else, when they have the wherewithal to pay tax. That’s why I think a cap would be the best option, it would give people the incentive to save up to a determined level, and they would pay tax above that level.

And yet you chose to post a chart accompanied by the words For the posters getting their underwear contorted about what the 'taxpayers' money' is spent on. as an illustration?

I'm playing both sides at once... 😁

TBH, Rosie51, I'm not impressed so far with this government but I'm also fed up with the hysteria about minscule amounts of public money that MPs are perfectly legitimately able to claim as expenses. Especially when I think of the £billions of public money the previous government sent soaring into the pockets of their friends and donors while our public services fell apart, with not a word of complaint from those currently in full cry about relatively minor expenditure.

growstuff my point was could anyone solely employed on PAYE claim an accountant's fees as tax deductible? I think not, but I'm happy to be corrected.

Someone solely employed on PAYE would not need to submit a Self Assessment tax return, so would have no need of an accountant like a self-employed person might do.
The relevant calculations, payment of tax and national insurance, are all done for them by their employer.

Sparklefizz

I've never known a budget like it when the poor, the old, the sick and vulnerable are preached at and harried in advance .... are deliberately made to feel frightened and worried. It's a disgrace and I will never forget it or forgive them for it whilst they have been accepting freebies! Ha!

There will be an epidemic of depression this winter amongst the general population.

What is it that the poor, the old, the sick and vulnerable are frightened and worried about? I honestly don't know.

I am not wealthy - certainly not by GN standards, I don't have great health, I'm 65, if that counts as 'old', and I don't feel either frightened or worried. I expect to have a bit less money after the budget, but if that means that healthcare, education, children's services and so on improve for everyone then that's ok.

Those with less than I have will see fewer cuts, as it will be things like savings interest that will be hit, not income tax, so the working poor will be protected. The poor and vulnerable are unlikely to own property other than their own home, so won't be expected to pay CGT or IHT, and neither of those things impact on daily life anyway.

We don't know exactly what will happen on Wednesday, but we do know that there will be no rise in taxation on PAYE, so why are the poor, old, sick and vulnerable worrying?

The probability was that we wouldn’t even have had an election by now so, even though Labour had a plan it wouldn’t have started by now. So I assume they had to warn people in advance that they would be losing the WFP, something that they hadn’t planned to do till next year if elected and they didn’t want to drop it on people at the last minute. Wanted them to claim for pension credit it necessary. Which then started off this mass hysteria about all the evil things the party were going to do to the most vulnerable. It certainly made me switch to the best possible tariff and do all the energy saving things that I’d been planning to do but, being such a procrastinator, kept putting off. What else can they do but point out that they are just building the foundations for a better future? Especially as they can’t point out that we’re still suffering from the greatest act of self harm that any country has ever done.