Governments First Budget

David49

Allira

Well, yes.
I thought we were discussing productive farms.

However, your post brings up an interesting question.
If large landowners turn over their land to environmental schemes and managed rewilding, will they be subject to these new IHT rules?
If it was previously agricultural land then it was not at the time.

However, the more land that is taken out of food production for environmental or building purposes the more precarious our food security in this country.

Yes environmental schemes qualify for new rules.
It’s crazy, bad weather is reducing yield of crops that are planted as well, morale amongst farmers was bad enough before.

The health of our productive agricultural land depends on the health of the wilder areas.

Over the last few decades we have seen the number of animals, birds, insects and plants drop drastically. Many of these insects pollinate crops, help keep crop harming insects at bay, while trees and greenery absorb carbon dioxide and contribute to alleviating the damage of global warming.

Extensive industrial farming has depleted the land, making it necessary to use greater quantities of fertilisers and producing crops with lower trace elements and mineral in them than crops from richer less depleted soils.

These environmental schemes, many on poorer and marginal lands are necessary to keep farming productive .

I should just like to say it brought tears to my eyes to hear a woman lay out such complexity so clearly and strongly. There was to me a feeling of great care and commitment to doing the best she could. And her intelligence shone through. I hadn't connected at all with her before but am always so glad when a woman steps up like this.

Passiflora

I should just like to say it brought tears to my eyes to hear a woman lay out such complexity so clearly and strongly. There was to me a feeling of great care and commitment to doing the best she could. And her intelligence shone through. I hadn't connected at all with her before but am always so glad when a woman steps up like this.

Yes. I agree.

The health of our productive agricultural land depends on the health of the wilder areas.^

I think farmers who own small family farms are well aware of that.

MayBee70

Passiflora

I should just like to say it brought tears to my eyes to hear a woman lay out such complexity so clearly and strongly. There was to me a feeling of great care and commitment to doing the best she could. And her intelligence shone through. I hadn't connected at all with her before but am always so glad when a woman steps up like this.

Yes. I agree.

👏👏👏

Surely a key factor in "Eating/buying UK food" is

imports from abroad on a a massive scale because of cheap labour and consumer eating habits, how many now eat just whats seasonal in the UK?

and

shortage of seasonal labour to pick and harvest home grown products, farmers cant get the labour

and climate change/waterlogging

That says it all, really.

Very sad.

Much easier to add miles and import from abroad than to address the flooding issue here.

Mollygo

Much easier to add miles and import from abroad than to address the flooding issue here.

Floods in so many countries ☹

If we don't look after our farmers, we are all doomed.

It’s carbon neutral agenda that’s driving this food import drive, but it’s not helping emissions, it causes exactly the same emissions to produce food wherever it’s produced on the globe add to that the transport emissions. This is especially true of out of season food where it is airfreighted to the UK.

Farmers will follow the government policy the environmental payments now make it not worthwhile growing many marginal crop. So we are paying twice for all the imports and doing nothing to reduce global emissions, the same applies to all other imports everything China sends us causes more emissions than producing in the UK.

While that continues global emissions will continue to rise.

Interesting thread by Dan Neidle about IHT on small farms:

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1851956384167776598.html

David49

It’s carbon neutral agenda that’s driving this food import drive, but it’s not helping emissions, it causes exactly the same emissions to produce food wherever it’s produced on the globe add to that the transport emissions. This is especially true of out of season food where it is airfreighted to the UK.

Equally true of the drive to get solar panels. They, in themselves do help with being carbon neutral, but the production using mostly fossil fuels means we increase the environmental problem in China, whilst smugly announcing our carbon neutral achievements, just as if China isn’t part of the same world.

He calls being under 70 youngish? Do most people in their 60s describe themselves as young?

later he says I'm seen some hysterical takes on this: "£20k could make the difference between a £2m farm being profitable or loss making". [£20k over ten years = IHT on £2m]

Nope. If it's making less than £20k profit/year, it ain't worth £2m.

What does he think the farmer should live on? Most or even all profit to go to paying IHT leaves exactly what for the farmer?

Rosie51 Dan Neidle ex Clifford Chance partner on mega bucks before he took early retirement. Rachael Reeves could find rich pickings in this group?

Rosie51

He calls being under 70 youngish? Do most people in their 60s describe themselves as young?

later he says I'm seen some hysterical takes on this: "£20k could make the difference between a £2m farm being profitable or loss making". [£20k over ten years = IHT on £2m]

Nope. If it's making less than £20k profit/year, it ain't worth £2m.

What does he think the farmer should live on? Most or even all profit to go to paying IHT leaves exactly what for the farmer?

Sorry, I don't recognise your figures. What's he's saying is that a farm worth more than £2 million for IHT will make more than £20k a year profit. In any case, if you read what he's written, a £2 million farm wouldn't have £20k IHT levied on it.

I posted the link because Dan Neidle understands far more about tax than I do (and I suspect most people).

PS. Yes, I do think under 70 is still youngish. On average, a 70 year old can expect to live another 15 years in the UK, which is plenty of time to get inheritance and taxes sorted out.

ronib

Rosie51 Dan Neidle ex Clifford Chance partner on mega bucks before he took early retirement. Rachael Reeves could find rich pickings in this group?

Yes, he was earning megabucks, which is why he knows a thing or two about taxation.

£20,000 over 10 years is, unless my maths is wrong, £2,000 per year, so not an entire year's profit.

I realise that small farms aren't particularly profitable, and the loss of the EU farm payments hasn't helped, but it should be do-able.

growstuff The figures were a quote (c&p) from the piece you linked, I didn't make them up.

Well as long as we can all expect to live another 15 years after age 70 that's fine, not much chance of getting caught out. Maybe the state pension age should be raised even higher if 70 is considered young!

ronib

Rosie51 Dan Neidle ex Clifford Chance partner on mega bucks before he took early retirement. Rachael Reeves could find rich pickings in this group?

I never cease to be amazed at your ability to introduce irrelevancy to a discussion, ronib. Neidle was a high powered tax lawyer. Exactly the person to know what he is talking about.

What he earned has nothing to do with farmers and IHT

growstuff The figures were a quote (c&p) from the piece you linked, I didn't make them up.

Nothing wrong with the original figures, Rosie51. You just forgot to factor in the 'paid over 10 years' bit.

growstuff

Interesting thread by Dan Neidle about IHT on small farms:

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1851956384167776598.html

The figures are misleading because the value under 500k are not commercial farms, it’s been decades since a living can be made from 40acres on a lowland farm. It represents retired farmer who have sold off land over the years and paid CGT on that sale or gifted land previously.

To be commercial 200 acres might be profitable if it’s very intensive, growing crops 500 acres is needed to survive. So the capital there is £6m at current values. IHT on that is substantial, if property has to be sold CGT is payable, add to that sale costs over 30% of value is lost and the reduction in acreage makes the farm uneconomic.

MaizieD The main thrust of the government is to raise taxes. It needs to broaden its remit to include the ridiculously paid partners in top law firms. She doesn’t seem inclined to take them on.
£5 million a year amounts to what kind of tax bill?

Dan Neidle, “described by taxation law specialist Jolyon Maugham[5] and tax publication ITR[6] as possibly the UK's leading tax lawyer”.

Isn’t it great that some GN posters appear to know more about IHT than him!

But, I suppose if his expert knowledge doesn’t fit your chosen narrative…

ronib

MaizieD The main thrust of the government is to raise taxes. It needs to broaden its remit to include the ridiculously paid partners in top law firms. She doesn’t seem inclined to take them on.
£5 million a year amounts to what kind of tax bill?

It's still irrelevant.

LD well actually HM Inspectors of Tax know quite a lot too. They are paid a fraction of £5 million for their efforts.
90 per cent tax bands surely need to be reintroduced when this country is on its knees?

MaizieD The o/p is about the government’s first budget. My comment is not irrelevant.