The Guardian offers counselling to staff after ‘upsetting’ Trump election result!

Perhaps Galaxy and petra, with their obviously superior understanding of 'ordinary people' could tell us in simple terms exactly what they do 'want'.

Because I thought that they wanted much the same as we 'not ordinary' people. A decent job which pays enough to enable them to feed, clothe, and shelter themselves without worry, plus some over for recreation. Good access to services such as health, social welfare and education and confidence that they are not going to have to fight for scarce resources.

But what do I know...

Er they probably dont want to be spoken to like that for a start.

Oreo

What utter silliness MaizieD

Like that, you mean?

Galaxy

Er they probably dont want to be spoken to like that for a start.

Like what, Galaxy?.
If people are claiming superior knowledge it would be helpful of them to share it rather than make gnomic utterances every time the topic is discussed.

Led By Donkeys has a video out (on Instagram) showing the facts of how Musk used Twitter to shove out misinformation during the US election campaign. The world wide power this man holds is terrifying!

So yes, Monica we should stop ‘believing in fairy tales’ and, instead, be very afraid for the future of the world our grandchildren will inherit. I know I am… and if that’s an ‘attack of the vapours’ so be it.

Galaxy

I am not in danger of attributing blame, I am blaming them, completely.

As do I, and it isn’t bias it’s seeing what’s in front of your nose.

It is not superior knowledge it is looking at the numerous times this has happened, and thinking I wonder what went wrong, not oh look at those racists over there.
They made abortion one of the key 'fights'. It wasnt important enough.
Those 'issues' are very important to those who spend a lot of time discussing politics, those who dont (and I dont think that's a moral failing) are focussed on other issues.
So you have that grouping.
Then presumably you have some of the lefty centrists who are currently watching the left and thinking these values arent mine. Those who have always been pro free speech, against misogyny, etc.
They also failed to notice mainstream media has lost its power. The right have established sone really effective communication tools, their podcasts are light years ahead of what the left are producing for example.
And finally, and we are going to have to face this, the middle class experience of immigration is different to the working class experience of immigration.

Oreo

Galaxy

I am not in danger of attributing blame, I am blaming them, completely.

As do I, and it isn’t bias it’s seeing what’s in front of your nose.

It is bias. Nothing is ever as simple as that in life. We all have bias, some acknowledge it and some don’t.

LizzieDrip

Led By Donkeys has a video out (on Instagram) showing the facts of how Musk used Twitter to shove out misinformation during the US election campaign. The world wide power this man holds is terrifying!

So yes, Monica we should stop ‘believing in fairy tales’ and, instead, be very afraid for the future of the world our grandchildren will inherit. I know I am… and if that’s an ‘attack of the vapours’ so be it.

On this day, when we remember the war dead from the two world wars we should also remember that our grandparents and great grandparents had a much worse time of it in the 20th century.They probably married when they had lived through the first war and their sons were the right age to be caught up in the second.
There are wars and conflicts going on in the world all the time.
It’s no good handwringing all the time tho or worrying about the future when we’re not here.

Casdon

Oreo

Galaxy

I am not in danger of attributing blame, I am blaming them, completely.

As do I, and it isn’t bias it’s seeing what’s in front of your nose.

It is bias. Nothing is ever as simple as that in life. We all have bias, some acknowledge it and some don’t.

Not everything is bias!
Where is the bias by me or galaxy in thinking from what we see and hear and read that the middle class socialists just don’t understand the real working classes and what they want? If they did understand them they could have predicted that DT would win, but they didn’t.
So stop with all the bias 😄

MaizieD

Galaxy

Er they probably dont want to be spoken to like that for a start.

Like what, Galaxy?.
If people are claiming superior knowledge it would be helpful of them to share it rather than make gnomic utterances every time the topic is discussed.

This article from The Guardian goes some way to explain why.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/06/kamala-harris-us-elections-donald-trump-victory

Dickens 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 for your comments.I said much the same earlier but not so well worded as yours.😃

Oreo I agree, today is a poignant day - one when learning from history to inform the future would be helpful.

I don’t consider learning from history to be ‘hand wringing’. Regarding the future - I won’t be here but my grandchildren will.

The thing is, that where wars are concerned we don’t learn from history.They will always go on, unless China, Amazon or Elon Musk take over the world so it’s all one with no borders.
Just my little joke, but seriously it’s no good these worried scenarios stopping our sleeping at nights.

Oreo

Casdon

Oreo

Galaxy

I am not in danger of attributing blame, I am blaming them, completely.

As do I, and it isn’t bias it’s seeing what’s in front of your nose.

It is bias. Nothing is ever as simple as that in life. We all have bias, some acknowledge it and some don’t.

Not everything is bias!
Where is the bias by me or galaxy in thinking from what we see and hear and read that the middle class socialists just don’t understand the real working classes and what they want? If they did understand them they could have predicted that DT would win, but they didn’t.
So stop with all the bias 😄

You’ve missed my point. I’m not saying that Galaxy or you are more biased than anybody else. I’m saying we are all biased, even if we think we are argument brokers rather than taking a side. It’s part of the human condition.

Chardonnay socialists?

I think it’s called champagne socialists nanna8.

There are plenty of them about. They don’t like the name though, even though it’s accurate.

petra

MaizieD

Galaxy

Er they probably dont want to be spoken to like that for a start.

Like what, Galaxy?.
If people are claiming superior knowledge it would be helpful of them to share it rather than make gnomic utterances every time the topic is discussed.

This article from The Guardian goes some way to explain why.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/06/kamala-harris-us-elections-donald-trump-victory

Thank you for posting this, petra. I id read it when it was published and Owen Jones comes to the same conclusion that I already had.

I don't think my analysis of 'what ordinary people want' in my earlier post is wrong, though no-one has piped up to agree with me. Because what they want is what they have wanted for decades. Centuries, even.

I think that Jones is mistaken to dismiss 'populism' because that is just what has driven the transfer of power from one section of society to another. It drove the support for the French revolution and the Russian revolution, because, whatever the high minded ideals of the 'leaders' of the revolutions the reason that they gained such large followings was that they seemed to promise a better life for the oppressed. Get rid of those rich aristos and your lives will be immeasurably better... If that isn't populism, I don't know what is. Johnson did it here with his promise of 'levelling up' and so did Labour recently with its promise of 'change', implying that they were going to make people's lives better..

But the reason for the ultimate failure of these movements (or whatever you like to call them) is 'the economy, stupid'. As Jones also identifies, if not in those words.

A marketing man, skilled at targeting discontent, Trump does not follow his crowds. Rather, he is led by the money men around him: the fossil fuel executives, the shadow bankers, the crypto bros and the world’s richest man, Elon Musk.

You can expect a lot more like it over the next four years. Trump will almost certainly plunder from the budgets for social security and Medicaid. The tech bros will suckle on government subsidies, while the suits from private equity get to set government policy.

However this politics dresses itself, it’s not populism. Try: theft – taking from the poor to give to the rich.

While ever we carry on the same economic system, which both populists and conservatives are completely wedded to; the system which advantages the wealthy and does little or nothing to improve the lives of the rest of the populace, we will get the same results. Voters turning to the leader who promises they will make their lives better.

Australians aren’t allowed to use ‘champagne’ any more ( French being precious) so it’s Chardonnay for us. Just saying.

madalene

There are plenty of them about. They don’t like the name though, even though it’s accurate.

Who says we don’t like the name? It’s really just another of those intended insults from the right that we laugh at, like woke lefties. The truth is, most people aren’t wounded by people who they are convinced have the wrong idea about something, whether those people are on the right or the left. Lack of compromise applies to everybody, very few are prepared to listen to views miles from their own, even the ones who purport to be in the middle.

nanna8

Australians aren’t allowed to use ‘champagne’ any more ( French being precious) so it’s Chardonnay for us. Just saying.

It’s called champers in Perth, perhaps they are too far from central government to care?

M0nica

MayBee70

I don’t see how it was blindingly obvious that a convicted felon who lies constantly ( and wouldn’t legally be allowed to work as a bartender in some states) would have law abiding moral people voting for him. Not if you have any faith in humanity, that is.

Faith in humanity has nothing to do with it . Of course it was obvious that Trump was going to win, all the polls showed it would happen. The result was always neck to neck, Harris was never ahead with clear water between her and Trump.

We really do live in the Age of Delusion where far too many people think that if what they want to happen, or do not want to happen, doesn't go their way, even when all the evidence shows that the oppositeof their preference is going to prevail, then this is a reason for having a serious attack of the vapours.

Male isn't female, female isn't male, Trump won the eection for US presidence. none of this will change just because you really, really want it to.

People need to grow up and stop believing in fairy tales.

M0nica

People need to grow up and stop believing in fairy tales.

I am surprised that you've used that sneering, typical social-media put down... and dismissing MayBee70's concern / comment, as an attack of the vapours. Pretty low.

I think we're all grown-up MOnica.

It might be a pointless exercise having faith in humanity - judging by historical events - even those in the 20th century. But it isn't niaive to recognise the inherent danger it poses by the fact that we can't have that faith.

Mass deportations. Does that ring any bells?

MaizieD

While ever we carry on the same economic system, which both populists and conservatives are completely wedded to; the system which advantages the wealthy and does little or nothing to improve the lives of the rest of the populace, we will get the same results. Voters turning to the leader who promises they will make their lives better.

Exactly.

It's not the economy, stupid...

It's the economic system, stupid.

Casdon

madalene

There are plenty of them about. They don’t like the name though, even though it’s accurate.

Who says we don’t like the name? It’s really just another of those intended insults from the right that we laugh at, like woke lefties. The truth is, most people aren’t wounded by people who they are convinced have the wrong idea about something, whether those people are on the right or the left. Lack of compromise applies to everybody, very few are prepared to listen to views miles from their own, even the ones who purport to be in the middle.

I started a thread a while back (tongue in cheek 🤣) asking if I was now a champagne socialist because I couldn’t recognise or support my party anymore.

I really dislike these sound bites (yes I appreciate I used one referring to myself) which have only one intention and that is to slur or other those we disagree with. Ones that spring to mind are:-

Loony Lefties
Brexshitters
Remoaners
Champagne Socialists etc…