Amsterdam attacks

MaizieD

^Provocation doesn't excuse either event.^

Thanks, Wyllow.

I suppose our views on provocation vary widely.

Between those who would tell their child not to take any notice of provocation and those who would tell them to retaliate.

Provocation doesn't excuse either event.

Thanks, Wyllow.

Much here has been discussed many times, the man dared to leave a synagogue , shock horror , no it was antisemitism

MaizieD

As I said previously, it is not the 'reporting' I'm interested in, it is what I can see with my own eyes in the video.

And quite frankly, Anniebach I'm not in the least impressed by what the Telegraph has to say about the disturbances. They have as much their own bias as anyone else.

So you don’t find Jews being attacked in the vicinity of Anne Frank’s house disturbing. I certainly do. And I don’t care who is reporting it, what I care about is that it is happening.

On this day of remembrance, when we think of those who fought against fascism in WW2, my own father was one of them, shot through the neck and shoulder, nearly bled to death aged just 19, at least I know what he fought for. He volunteered, he wasn’t conscripted, so he knew too. And what he was fighting against was exactly what happened on the streets of Amsterdam last week.

This has been discussed many times Annie and the police officer was pulled up for the use of language.

The context was that the young man and friends after leaving their synagogue and already having crossed the march once, wanted to recross it where the march was very busy and police lined the march all the way.

The police were trying to be helpful by suggesting they wait a little and they could be escorted across but in trying to explain why, used that term.

The young man in fact achieved his aim of bringing the safety of Jewish people into focus and how language gets used.

Earlier this year a Jew walked on a pavement in London close to a protest march , the Jew was stopped by a police officer who
claimed the man was Openly Jewish

Outsiders are not allowed to do that, Freda.

However there is a lot of fundraising for peace based aid and medical agencies, that is, those permitted to enter Gaza, which is very few, and not in the north atm.

It's not 2 tier policing as such: remember Tommy Robinson and friends heading for the Cenotaph just last year at this time? Policing is about containment of demonstrations of any sort.

Oreo

The Israeli fans when going down the escalators shouldn’t have been singing/ chanting but that presumably was after the match and there was huge provocation from a lot of pro Palestinian footie supporters of Ajax within the stadium with
their chanting.
None of that excuses the physical attacks on the Jewish fans, pre planned using vehicles and groups of people.

As for stopping pro Palestinian marches and gatherings today,
It could have been stopped by the police if the will was there.
Today, London should be about the Remembrance Parade.

Stopped the farmers protesting, but not the palestinian mob, who seek to disrespect a national day of morning. If they are so concerned re Gaza, they could volunteer to help, you know help the Israelis transport sick and injured people to hospitals in other countries. Not shown by the mSm of course.
Two tier policing once more.

Provocation doesn't excuse either event.

However, we are still left with the question, of what is provoking the protests, the war itself and its conduct, and it being suggested that the government should "do something about it".

What can our government do - its been suggested they "should" be doing something they aren't.

Its an international problem and even the US and other international players haven't the clout to bring ceasefires nor intervene for example in the decision to block aid to the north of Gaza, which has been a tipping point for many.

The Israeli fans when going down the escalators shouldn’t have been singing/ chanting but that presumably was after the match and there was huge provocation from a lot of pro Palestinian footie supporters of Ajax within the stadium with
their chanting.
None of that excuses the physical attacks on the Jewish fans, pre planned using vehicles and groups of people.

As for stopping pro Palestinian marches and gatherings today,
It could have been stopped by the police if the will was there.
Today, London should be about the Remembrance Parade.

The Guardian video (and article) I posted last night (2 mins) showed that events were not entirely one sided, although the article makes clear the evening and the attacks were widespread and anti semitic. At one point mass footie supporters chanted "ole. ole, f* the Arabs". Please do see for yourself.

www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/08/israel-sends-rescue-planes-football-fans-reportedly-attacked-amsterdam

I don't think a protest should have been allowed today, but in general, they are not going to stop until the situation in Gaza especially has changed.

I'm not sure exactly how our government is supposed to stop the protests?

As we have little influence on the war itself, which is what is causing the protests and inflaming divisions.

And this is heading our way, my way, your way. The labour government will do little to stop it. They first need to admit it is a realistic threat. I so worry about this county for the next 4 years.

As I said previously, it is not the 'reporting' I'm interested in, it is what I can see with my own eyes in the video.

And quite frankly, Anniebach I'm not in the least impressed by what the Telegraph has to say about the disturbances. They have as much their own bias as anyone else.

I dont. I support the right to protest - I find aspects of the pro Palestine marches deeply worrying - but that's not the point.

mum2three

Yet still our government is allowing pro-Palestinian marches on the streets of Britain. There is one planned for today (Remembrance Sunday). It's an utter disgrace! Starmer may be the Prime Minister of the UK but he certainly isn't put its people first.

👏 👏
Protests are banned in France. That's why the Olympic Games passed without incident for weeks this summer. That's why France is currently a feelgood nation. Without being romantic, you actually notice it in the air in Paris and elsewhere. Macron gets tough, the police actually intervene if there's trouble. I wish Starmer would take a leaf out of France's book.

madalene

Why was a thirteen year old child pretending to be a journalist, and who set him up to do this stunt?

I know nothing about him, but it appears he frequently walks round as a journalist taking videos to show the opposite angle put out by mainstream news outlets. Where there's any demonstration, he shows up with his microphone. He is known in Amsterdam for this, Bender is his name. He interviews people who can offer the slant he wants to get across. Maybe it's a contrived stunt, maybe he actually uncovers some truth, I don't know, but at 13 years old he can hardly be considered an experienced reporter.

The London Mayor could speak out

Yet still our government is allowing pro-Palestinian marches on the streets of Britain. There is one planned for today (Remembrance Sunday). It's an utter disgrace! Starmer may be the Prime Minister of the UK but he certainly isn't put its people first.

On Thursday night, a terrible echo of the “Jew hunts” that took place during the German occupation played out just a few hundred yards from Anne Frank’s House as Israeli football fans were pursued through the streets and attacked.
The parallels were too obvious to ignore, prompting the Dutch king to say his country had failed Jewish people just as it did during the Second World War.

The Telegraph

Obviously the video was a stunt so it wouldn’t show the Israeli
fans being attacked

Why was a thirteen year old child pretending to be a journalist, and who set him up to do this stunt?

Politics will come into play

How ludicrous. A large gang of Israeli football fans had to run round the streets of Amsterdam 'arming themselves for their own protection'. What planet are some people on?

Why didn't they go back to their nice safe hotel where no-one was likely to attack them and have a few drinks to console themselves for losing the game.

Where, in that video, did we see anyone threatening or attacking that 'armed for their own protection' mob? Why would they be threatening the police and throwing stones at them? Surely the police would be protecting them.

The age of the commentator is irrelevant. What is relevant is what was being filmed.

And how nasty to imply that a 13 yr old Dutch boy would be biased in one way or the other. Did he show any overt bias in what he was saying?

The police Commissioner for Amsterdam seemed very clear in the clip of his press conference that I saw, that the trouble was initiated by the Israeli 'fans'. And what was Mossad doing there?

I've ben waiting for a summary of events to come out and timeline to understand what went on. This report includes a video and full details.

www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/08/israel-sends-rescue-planes-football-fans-reportedly-attacked-amsterdam

A child in a video on uTube, this is mocking a terrifying
attack ,