Amsterdam attacks

No one has said Islamophobia is ever justified. A thread on
Islamophobia perhaps?

Have just returned to say neither have I reported anyone. Unless is trolling or nasty I don’t do this though I was and still am offended by such comments.
But am imagining someone did feel very upset by the comments and am not diminishing their feelings.
This is the whole problem, those who get rightfully upset by antisemitism refuse to see that their comments could upset other groups in the selfsame way. Muslims in many countries see their human rights and feelings amounting to very little right now, and to insist that Islamophobia is somehow justified because of terrorism committed by a few extreme groups is ridiculous and very offensive. The majority of Muslims have crimes against humanity committed against them, very few do this vice versa.
In any case a whole people cannot be persecuted and attacked because of others actions. Indeed the same should be said about those attacking Jewish people, they should not be attacked because of what is happening in Gaza.
But people make unfortunate connections in life and punish the innocent because if it.
In a nutshell Islamophobia IS as deeply damaging and injurious as antisemitism, but if people disagree with this perhaps they themselves have deeply held prejudices against Muslims.

Would just like to say I have not reported Oreo or anyone else’s post.

Anniebach

No, that would lead to more links from social media and 10 year old newspapers

What's that supposed to mean? It sounds like a sneer to me. Have you actually understood why I posted a 10 year old link? Just in case you didn't understand first time, I was providing evidence that Maccabi Tel Aviv's fans have a long history of racism, which has absolutely nothing to do with the current situation in Gaza. It was these fans who instigated the violence a couple of days ago, with their vile anti-Arab chants and attacks on Palestinian flags and at least one taxi driver.

escaped

But that's just it, growstuff, especially in the case of antisemitism, everything is intrinsically linked, so the discussion inevtiably spills into so many areas. You yourself on this thread mentioned a close family member who comes from a Muslim family, and how he might be affected. I doubt whether he is a football fan, and certainly not a hooligan either, but he fits into the bigger picture of the discussion.

No, I have not mentioned how my son-in-law might be affected. I'm curious to know why you doubt he's a football fan. He was born in Manchester, the home of one of England's most successful teams - why wouldn't he support them?

What I'm getting at escaped is that in this case, the violence in Amsterdam was instigated by racist Israeli football fans, who have a long history of racist chants, even against their own players if they are Arab or black.

The focus of most of the reporting has been about the subsequent attacks on Israeli fans, but hasn't mentioned what sparked it all off. The media has reported Netanyahu's claim that it was like Kristallnacht. If that were the case, Amsterdam resident Jews and their property would have been attacked - as far as I know, they weren't.

The point I have been trying to make is that reporting has been biased and that's been reinforced by some of the posts on here, which have insisted on taking the focus off the attacks themselves towards anti-semitism itself. I'm not denying that Arab/Jew tensions have been involved, but it would be good to see some accuracy and balance.

PS. I'd post some of the words from Maccabi Tel Aviv's chants, but I think the 'genteel' GN posters would be shocked and ask for them to be deleted. If I were an Arab living in Amsterdam, I wouldn't want foreigners shouting that kind of muck in my home city.

But that's just it, growstuff, especially in the case of antisemitism, everything is intrinsically linked, so the discussion inevtiably spills into so many areas. You yourself on this thread mentioned a close family member who comes from a Muslim family, and how he might be affected. I doubt whether he is a football fan, and certainly not a hooligan either, but he fits into the bigger picture of the discussion.

No, that would lead to more links from social media and 10 year old newspapers

Anniebach

Monies to protect Synagogues and schools, we never heard of
any antisemites being charged for causing damage, it would
cause more and more damage and worse ?

Why don't you start a thread about that? The focus of this one is the attacks in Amsterdam. It would make more sense to lead the discussion towards football hooliganism and racism.

The title of this thread is "Amsterdam attacks". There have been numerous threads on GN about antisemitism and it appears that this one has morphed into another.

I quite agree with you Oreo that the truth is important. That's why accuracy is so important. In this case, the catalyst for the ensuing violence was the behaviour of some racist Israeli fans, who have form for this kind of thing.

Monies to protect Synagogues and schools, we never heard of
any antisemites being charged for causing damage, it would
cause more and more damage and worse ?

Oreo

Since my comments about terrorism from extremist Muslim groups such as Hezbollah have been deleted due no doubt to complaints by one or two posters there is little point in continuing this.
I cannot understand why the truth about this can’t be mentioned, it’s beyond bizarre.
I have already said what I think about antisemitism and I stand by it.It’s everywhere.

In what way can your version of the truth not be mentioned? If that were true, people wouldn't ever be allowed to mention anti-semitism or Muslim extremism and it's quite obvious that they are.

FWIW I didn't report your posts, which I didn't even read.

love0c

I would be very anxious if I was a jew living here at the moment. there is a very large Jewish community near to where we live and it is so upsetting to see the security they have to have around the school and synagogue. This will get worse as this government is allowing it to go on in spades!

I agree it's going on and reprehensible, and we want it to stop, what more can the government do? How are they "allowing?" (genuine question, we want it to stop)

I did a check to see what they do already:

"The UK government has provided funding to protect Jewish schools and synagogues from antisemitism, including:
£54 million: New funding in 2024 to increase security at Jewish buildings, including schools and synagogues

£18 million: Previously allocated to the Community Security Trust (CST) until 2025

£3 million: Made available in October 2023 to support more than 480 Jewish community locations

The total funding up to 2028 is £72 million. The funding will be used to provide measures such as security guards, closed-circuit TV (CCTV), and alarm systems.

The government's funding is in response to the rise in antisemitism in the UK, which has been recorded as a record 4,103 incidents in 2023. The CST advises Britain's estimated 280,000 Jews on security matters".

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/community-security-trust-jewish-rishi-sunak-hamas-british-b2504331.html#

and

www.gov.uk/government/news/record-funding-will-protect-jewish-communities-from-harm

Yes, love0c, especially when red paint is thrown over Jewish schools by antisemites, and Jewish children are harassed and told to stay home for their safety.
One small part of me wants to say that Jews need to ignore this and carry on, and not see themselves as victims, but the bigger part of me knows how much fear and dread they feel going about their every day lives.
It is a hatred I don't understand.

I would be very anxious if I was a jew living here at the moment. there is a very large Jewish community near to where we live and it is so upsetting to see the security they have to have around the school and synagogue. This will get worse as this government is allowing it to go on in spades!

I’m inclined to agree with nanna8 - anti semitism is ever present. The awful war is giving anti semites power and the ability to claim they’re on ‘the right side’

Before anyone shouts at me - of course the death of innocents and children is horrific and wrong. So we’re the October attacks that triggered this war

I think you’re right nanna8 what are things like in Australia?

It (antisemitism) is everywhere and getting more noticeable,too. I think what is happening in the Middle East gives an excuse for them to crawl out of the woodwork and pretend to be on the side of the ‘righteous.’

Since my comments about terrorism from extremist Muslim groups such as Hezbollah have been deleted due no doubt to complaints by one or two posters there is little point in continuing this.
I cannot understand why the truth about this can’t be mentioned, it’s beyond bizarre.
I have already said what I think about antisemitism and I stand by it.It’s everywhere.

I think it's relevant and necessary looking at some aspects of what happened in Amsterdam in relationship to the conflicts in the Middle East and several GN's have done this in different ways

The events there are not separate from the conflicts in the Middle East and how it's spilling out into other countries.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

No point at all in explaining anything to those who read posts wrongly or twist words to suit narratives, so that’s one thing you’re right on growstuff.

Allira

growstuff

Posters certainly do put their own spin on others' posts.

Oreo: Any instances of Islamaphobia in Europe come from the fact that extremism from groups who are Muslim has wrought so much death and destruction around the world that it causes this.

Babs03 Oreo that is a highly offensive thing you say about innocent Muslims worldwide.

Not sure how else you interpret that, growstuff

🤔.

And there isn't much point explaining!

Oreo Are you are the thread police?
I was responding to your comments 3 posts up about Muslims causing death and destruction.
No need to respond. I will leave you to it.

Post references deleted post Talk guidelines.

Posters certainly do put their own spin on others' posts.