Assisted dying bill

Well said MaryDoll, whatever the outcome I do hope that we don't emulate the roads Canada and The Netherlands have gone down in assisted dying.

Are people on this thread who don't support the bill driven to object because of their religious beliefs. Or is their religion not an influence?

OldFrill

Are people on this thread who don't support the bill driven to object because of their religious beliefs. Or is their religion not an influence?

Nothing at all to do with my religion. It is a question of morality for me, influenced by my own personal circumstances.

Again I agree with MaryDoll and completely agree having read your previous posts. It's not necessarily religious beliefs that would make anyone feel uncomfortable in what could come down the line in time. I wonder how Canada adopted it at the outset as opposed to how it's evolved. I remember seeing a QT quite a while ago on the subject, where two members of the panel who couldn't be more diametrically opposed politically, namely George Galloway and journalist Melanie Philips profoundly agreed with each other on this subject. I remember GG saying something like "what would worry me would be a scenario of helping granny on her way, granny being pressurised because she was a burden or the desire for family members to get their hands on her money" not verbatim but that was the gist. I completely understand the desire for those with a terminal degenerative illness such as Motor Nuerone where an awful ending awaits wanting to terminate their lives before it reaches that stage. What bothers me is the slippery slope that assisted dying has morphed into in Canada, how long before it's suggested that certain people are an expensive burden.

OldFrill

Are people on this thread who don't support the bill driven to object because of their religious beliefs. Or is their religion not an influence?

Nothing whatsoever to do with my religious beliefs.

Terribull, Fully Agree, in fact I along with others have written to my MP along with local mosques and churches expressing how my MP should oppose the AD bill. As I said if my labour MP wants to get in to Parliament again the majority is quite slim. Canada's policy was originally couched in so called liberal compassion and ended up as a Frankenstein law. Careful if you become unwell as the state has death (via your nearest and dearest) as an option.

OldFrill

Are people on this thread who don't support the bill driven to object because of their religious beliefs. Or is their religion not an influence?

Those who do not agree with the proposed AD Bill are not necessarily motivated by religious views. I’m a member of my local humanist group, many of whom do support the Bill, but for many well considered reasons I don’t.
You cannot assume at all.

Just to say being religious and believing a soul exists doesn't make one a lesser human.

Kalm

Just to say being religious and believing a soul exists doesn't make one a lesser human.

Who on earth suggested that it did? I can't see anything on this thread which did.

I'd say a lot of the people who don't support it - seeing potential problems isn't the same as completely rejecting the idea - are doing so from a safeguarding point of view.

We've all seen a pretty grim picture of how very wrong things can be when safeguarding protocol is goes wrong.

MissAdventure-Switzerland has allowed Assisted Dying for over half a Century, and there has been NO slippery slope and the system works really well.

So where fo you get the 'We've all seen a pretty grim picture of how very wrong things can be when safeguarding protocol is goes wrong.' Canada? The proposed Bill has absolutely nothing to do with the Canadian system- at all.

Farzanah, I am also a member of the Humanist Society. You are the first person ever I've known to be against the Bill. I'd estimate 99+% are in favour and strongly campaigning in favour.

Kalm

Just to say being religious and believing a soul exists doesn't make one a lesser human.

What a very strange comment. No-one has suggested this at all.

I have Muslim family and friends and I totally respect their wishes to not avail themselves of choice. But I am terribly aggrieved that they, and other religious groups, Christian or otherwise- think they can stop me and others having the CHOICE.

MissAdventure

I'd say a lot of the people who don't support it - seeing potential problems isn't the same as completely rejecting the idea - are doing so from a safeguarding point of view.

We've all seen a pretty grim picture of how very wrong things can be when safeguarding protocol is goes wrong.

Excellent post, Miss A.

Fleurpepper

MissAdventure-Switzerland has allowed Assisted Dying for over half a Century, and there has been NO slippery slope and the system works really well.

So where fo you get the 'We've all seen a pretty grim picture of how very wrong things can be when safeguarding protocol is goes wrong.' Canada? The proposed Bill has absolutely nothing to do with the Canadian system- at all.

Farzanah, I am also a member of the Humanist Society. You are the first person ever I've known to be against the Bill. I'd estimate 99+% are in favour and strongly campaigning in favour.

No, I wasn't referring to assisted dying at all, just pointing out that safeguarding guidelines must always be followed, or the results can affect the vulnerable people they are set up to protect.

I don't feel the NHS currently is in a fit state to be able to offer all that is needed to be in place.

MissAdventure you posted

I don’t feel the NHS currently is in a fit state to be able to offer all that is needed to be in place

I totally agree with this 👍

MissA, thank you for clarifying. And I totally agree that safeguarding guidelines must always be followed.

In Switzerland, this is all properly documented, and interviews to ensure absolutely no hesitation or coercion, filmed and given to Police for Judge.

Two things would stop us from ever returning, despite low Sterling values making things quite difficult- the state of the NHS, and the lack of choice, if and when.

I can understand that, because in principle I'm not against the idea of choice, but I know I could fill the whole thread up with anecdotal tales about indifferent, cruel, lackadaisical, or wrongtreatment that just me and my family experienced in the NHS.
Letters not sent, lack of communication between departments, appointments not made, and so on.

Yes, MissA, I get that. None more sad about what is happening to the NHS than DH and myself, and family and friends.

MissAdventure

I'd say a lot of the people who don't support it - seeing potential problems isn't the same as completely rejecting the idea - are doing so from a safeguarding point of view.

We've all seen a pretty grim picture of how very wrong things can be when safeguarding protocol is goes wrong.

Yes, I totally understand that. But for me personally, it still just comes down to 'my body, my choice.

You'd need an awful lot of trust in the NHS to trust them with your choice.
I'm afraid I haven't got that much.

I hate to think of people dying in pain, so the person should be able to choose, however there will those whose family would pressurise them because they don’t want the burden of someone or want their inheritance. I think the system in Canada is bad, wouldn't want that here. Its a pity we cant have a pill and do it ourselves as a last resort, I know i would do it rather than carry on with a terminal diagnosis and pain.

Assisted dying us more or less giving you the option to do just that.
It would need to be checked, though, by people qualified to decide on your behalf, if it was still what you wanted, if you could no longer make it known.

That option is not part of the Bill. And is not available in Switzerland either. The choice has to be clearly made, by the person themselves, showing evidence that they are totally able to make a clear choice, with a clear mind.

My husband almost did it by accident when he got his med dose wrong. He was terrified and refused to take his med for some days afterwards. He said the feeling of everything closing down was horrible.

Yes, I've watched some videos of Dignitis, and the process.
I know they check with the person at every step, and ensure they understand, and are doing it of their own volition.