Assisted dying bill

That link is chilling. The fantasy of the perfect death blown out of the water.

I've expressed my reservations on other threads based on the truly horrific experience if my beautiful dog suffering a painful terrifying death. It seemed like she had some terrible reaction to the drugs.

Totally agree with this ....who wants to be left entirely alone, no family, no care, no help, in agony and suffering !!!! NOT ME ....My only disappointment is the 6 months to live rule ...many people are suffering from neurological diseases that are awful to have...there I no way I want to suffer as I watched my late husband do .....(he was however the opposite ...he desperately wanted to live, which in fact is probably worse ..as he developed vascular dementia, cancer of the oesophogus, inability to walk and in desperation to get out of bed, fell out despite us having a hospital bed at home ...in the end, after washing three piles of bedding every day, being sworn at, watching him thump the doctor when she visited (we lived in France) ...extremely aggressive, refusing outside help ..I had to put him into a care home which was excellent they could not have been more helpful ...even grabbing anyone who spoke English to go and chat to him ...it was awful, and I would have no one to look after me ...no social care, no palliative care, hospices closing ...how awful to sit alone just waiting to die....I looked at the BMA rules as they stood for euthanasia ......I looked at Dignitas (£15,000) ...care homes IF there are any left, £8,000 a month ...money from the sale of my home would only keep me for about one year ! ...disappointed the UK does not have something in place like Canada, Switzerland and many other places {angry}

Kalm

Just because the narrative of this discussion is somehow portrayed as compassionate liberal because Ester Rantzen supports it does not mean it is right.

Equally, it does not make it wrong. In fact, it doesn't make it anything. ER is the current 'mouthpiece' for this movement, but there were others before her and, if the bill fails, there will be others after. It is not about Esther Rantzen, she is the catalyst.

It's quite right to be concerned about the so-called 'safeguards' that would be put in place to prevent any kind of abuse of this option because many of our legitimate / legal systems, processes, and pathways - especially where health-care and social-care are concerned - fail us.

However, there is a principle involved in this - forgetting the concerns people have for a moment - no-one should be forced to suffer because of another's ideological, philosophical or religious beliefs, in the same way that no doctor or any other person should be forced to be a part of the process of ending another's life it it is against those ideological or religious beliefs.

Equally, no-one from any religious demographic has the right to decide for another person in that same religious demographic.

If a bill is passed - it has to be available to every British citizen regardless of their ethnicity or religion, in the same way that every British citizen has to obey the law - or be protected by it.

The argument about safeguarding, and the possibility of abuse of this proposed law - if it becomes one - is quite separate from the principle of it applying to all equally.

My mums just died after 7 long years of dementia, this bill is a must and any one who says different needs to, live my mums and our life over the last few weeks. Your mind would definitely be changed then.

schnoodlelove, your link highlights a situation that would never arise with this new Bill, and certainly could not happen in other countries where Assisted Suicide is legal. That is the whole point- the potion is pre-prepared and an anti-emetic given about 30 mins before. In the case of Pegasos in Switzerland, their method consists of an intravenous drip, which is triggered by the person, and acts immediately, without the bitter drink.

This is total fearmongering in the extreme. Despite being a member of one of the Swiss organisations and with excellent knowledge of Pegasos, not a single case as you describe, in over half a century.

Koalama

My mums just died after 7 long years of dementia, this bill is a must and any one who says different needs to, live my mums and our life over the last few weeks. Your mind would definitely be changed then.

I'm sorry for your loss and what you've been through but this bill would not have applied to your mother as I understand it. She wouldn't have had a life expectancy of under 6 months when she still had capacity, it won't help people like your mother unless I've misunderstood it.

Whiff

Babs my dad would have wanted assisted dieing as he hated what he had become and hated seeing mom watching him die .

Before mom's dementia killed her but her body lived on ..While she still.coukd make decisions and knew she was losing herself she did say I'm going to throw myself down the stairs and die . I pointed out it probably wouldn't kill her just break some bones so she decided not to do it. But she did talk about wanting to die before she forgot everything. If she had asked me to give her enough tablets to do it I would have .

When my husband was terminal we talked about him dieing and told him if the pain got to bad I would help him die both the children knew about this and agreed . He just wanted to get to his 47th so we got them there . He died 4 days later from the cancer . But I had to tell him to stop fighting as even on full oxygen he could breath . Told him we will be ok. He died few minutes later.

I know I don't want an extended life if I lose the quality . And do not want my daughter to go through what I went through especially with my mom . I decided a long time ago if I lost my quality of life due to cancer or was diagnosed with dementia or Alzheimer's to end my life . Before I destroyed my daughter.

What I went through with my mom took me a year to remember her as she was before the dementia killed her mind and the violence took over. But it was out of fear mom didn't know who she was ,where or who I was she thought I was her mom .

Life without quality isn't living . But I know people will disagree but I wonder how many people have looked after people with life ending conditions by themselves 24/7 for years .

💯 agree 🫂

I hope this bill goes through,but doubt it will sadly.
Having seen too many people suffer on the road to death it would be good to have the option to end it if the person so wished.
I’m not afraid of death, I’m afraid of the road to death which can be awful,it can be ok too but we don’t know which one we’ll be given.
No one would have to take the option of assisted death but it would help many people by taking away the fear of death which is for many people very real.

theworriedwell

Koalama

My mums just died after 7 long years of dementia, this bill is a must and any one who says different needs to, live my mums and our life over the last few weeks. Your mind would definitely be changed then.

I'm sorry for your loss and what you've been through but this bill would not have applied to your mother as I understand it. She wouldn't have had a life expectancy of under 6 months when she still had capacity, it won't help people like your mother unless I've misunderstood it.

Sadly, this is the case. And I am sorry you had to go through this as we did with our massively intelligent MIL.

In Switzerland, people with a diagnosis of Alzheimers or Dementia, can still make the decision to go early, whilst they, despite diagnosis, still have sufficient ability to make it clear that this is what they want. But they have to make the decision early, before it is too late. This is what both DH and myself have decided is what we would do. Easier said than done though!

Holland seems to be the only country where you can make very clear advanced directive, that in the case of Alzheimers or Dementia, if the capacity to decide for oneself, as long as the person, whilst fully compos mentis still, clearly requests this in the advanced directives, and confirmed with doctor at the time.

Fleurpepper

theworriedwell

Koalama

My mums just died after 7 long years of dementia, this bill is a must and any one who says different needs to, live my mums and our life over the last few weeks. Your mind would definitely be changed then.

I'm sorry for your loss and what you've been through but this bill would not have applied to your mother as I understand it. She wouldn't have had a life expectancy of under 6 months when she still had capacity, it won't help people like your mother unless I've misunderstood it.

Sadly, this is the case. And I am sorry you had to go through this as we did with our massively intelligent MIL.

In Switzerland, people with a diagnosis of Alzheimers or Dementia, can still make the decision to go early, whilst they, despite diagnosis, still have sufficient ability to make it clear that this is what they want. But they have to make the decision early, before it is too late. This is what both DH and myself have decided is what we would do. Easier said than done though!

Holland seems to be the only country where you can make very clear advanced directive, that in the case of Alzheimers or Dementia, if the capacity to decide for oneself, as long as the person, whilst fully compos mentis still, clearly requests this in the advanced directives, and confirmed with doctor at the time.

I think this is a difficult issue. I currently have LPA for a relative in her 90s. She was a somewhat difficult character and not a very happy person. When she first went into a dementia care home she was very unhappy, it was clear to anyone but here we are 8 years later and she is one of the lucky ones with dementia who seems happy, she joins in with things like singing and art that she would have totally rejected in the past. If she had made the advanced decision she would have died an unhappy person, currently she is happier than I've known her although physically she is deteriorating and who knows what the very end will be like.

I have agreed a DNR for her as I don't think it is likely to be successful and is likely to be unpleasant but I feel the weight of the decisions.

Yes, it is a difficult issue- very complex indeed. Which is why Switzerland has not gone that route. And which is why THIS IS NOT AT ALL IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM the plan for the new Bill in the UK.

Fleurpepper

Yes, it is a difficult issue- very complex indeed. Which is why Switzerland has not gone that route. And which is why THIS IS NOT AT ALL IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM the plan for the new Bill in the UK.

I know it isn't but I don't think that is well understood. I've seen so many posts, on here and elsewhere, with people referencing years of suffering with dementia who don't seem to realise this bill won't help in that situation.

theworriedwell

Fleurpepper

Yes, it is a difficult issue- very complex indeed. Which is why Switzerland has not gone that route. And which is why THIS IS NOT AT ALL IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM the plan for the new Bill in the UK.

I know it isn't but I don't think that is well understood. I've seen so many posts, on here and elsewhere, with people referencing years of suffering with dementia who don't seem to realise this bill won't help in that situation.

I do realise that, actually. I understand why some people are concerned - this is always going to be a very divisive issue, but for me personally, it comes down to the same argument in the abortion debate. My body - my choice.

Of course we already have choice, suicide has been legal for years.

theworriedwell

Of course we already have choice, suicide has been legal for years.

We all know it's not quite as simple as that though.

theworriedwell

Of course we already have choice, suicide has been legal for years.

We don't access to the drugs that would allow us to go easily though. They are prescription drugs. And I don't fancy drinking drain cleaner or hanging myself or cutting my wrist or traumatising a train driver by jumping in front of a train.

MissInterpreted

theworriedwell

Of course we already have choice, suicide has been legal for years.

We all know it's not quite as simple as that though.

But in fact we do have a choice. We don't have a choice to involve anyone else.

The issue for me is being sure that my choice doesn't alter over time.

I don't want something I may have been sure on five years ago to still be considered as my choice, without being able to check.

IOMGran

theworriedwell

Of course we already have choice, suicide has been legal for years.

We don't access to the drugs that would allow us to go easily though. They are prescription drugs. And I don't fancy drinking drain cleaner or hanging myself or cutting my wrist or traumatising a train driver by jumping in front of a train.

Well I'm not going to make suggestions but there are easier ways.

IOMGran

theworriedwell

Of course we already have choice, suicide has been legal for years.

We don't access to the drugs that would allow us to go easily though. They are prescription drugs. And I don't fancy drinking drain cleaner or hanging myself or cutting my wrist or traumatising a train driver by jumping in front of a train.

Exactly.

theworriedwell

IOMGran

theworriedwell

Of course we already have choice, suicide has been legal for years.

We don't access to the drugs that would allow us to go easily though. They are prescription drugs. And I don't fancy drinking drain cleaner or hanging myself or cutting my wrist or traumatising a train driver by jumping in front of a train.

Well I'm not going to make suggestions but there are easier ways.

Oh really? I don't believe you. Tell us if you really have an easy way otherwise I call BS.

I have a book of instructions as to how to end my life. I had to belong to Exit for months before I was allowed to buy the book.
There are actual drugs and dosages as well as instructions for making a simple face mask.

I have not read my book for years. The instructions involve overdose of certain drugs and how to obtain them. There need be no violence involved in self delivery.

www.exitinternational.net/

What happened to the value of life?

This is such a depressing thread- the truth is no one knows how they will die.

Some people seem obsessed with death here.

Let's live and celebrate life for a change!

The truth is some people chose to know when they will die.
I have this minute bought the book from Amazon. If I dont use it someone else in need may be given my copy.