Starmer declines to rule out council tax rise.

Your link won’t open for me Wyllow, I don’t know why but it keeps crashing. In the meantime I had found this, which describes the additional funding the Tories has given to LAs in the current financial year -7.5% in cash terms, apologies if it’s the same link and yours works for others.
www.gov.uk/government/news/council-funding-package-confirmed

Freya5

Casdon

Your memory is scarily short Freya5. Try looking back just four months?

"Scarily short", well if you say so. Can't be bothered to go that far back.

I’ve got a good memory, that’s all.

Well he’s broken nearly all his promises to date this one will be no different.

Mollygo

^I wonder who those who contribute to threads about care needs think should pay for them.^

They’re possibly already paying, and on a limited budget, without the ability to claim travel and living expenses like those on a higher salary, who are making the decisions are able to do.

If they're already paying, it's quite clear that they're not paying enough. Social care is many councils' biggest expenditure. It's statutory, so they can't avoid their responsibility. Many councils are near bankruptcy (some are already bankrupt), so it's clear that more money is needed. Incidentally, I'm sure you know that social care isn't just about the elderly.

Spencer2009

Well he’s broken nearly all his promises to date this one will be no different.

And he's kept many.

If they're already paying, it's quite clear that they're not paying enough. Social care is many councils' biggest expenditure. It's statutory, so they can't avoid their responsibility. Many councils are near bankruptcy (some are already bankrupt), so it's clear that more money is needed. Incidentally, I'm sure you know that social care isn't just about the elderly.

Gosh you’re so smug. Are you an MP?

And possibly they are already paying enough, whilst others aren’t, and still claiming travel and living expenses that others can’t get.
e.g. NHS worker whose daily travel expenses on public transport
cost her one and a half times her hourly rate, or more if she travels by car and has to pay parking fees and then walk almost 1km, but still doesn’t get travel expenses.

Smug? I have nothing to be smug about.

So who exactly do you think should be paying for the services councils have to provide?

What on earth does councils' providing services have to do with NHS workers' car parking charges?

I really do despair at times that people can't debate anything on GN without going off on an irrelevant tangent.

Wyllow3

People grumble about paying but grumble about lack of services.

I think we taxpayers mostly grumble about inefficiency and gross wastage on silly projects - Pride flags, rainbow ambulances, virtue supignalling nonsense. It all costs money and it has to stop.

Council tax will rise. However, I would be more concerned if you live in a large house or detached. I feel pretty sure re banding is on the cards!

What on earth does councils' providing services have to do with NHS workers' car parking charges?

You think people should pay more towards care etc. Not a bad idea, except that you make that proclamation without knowing anything about their earnings and the amount they have to live on.

I’ll explain it more clearly, though I doubt if you’ll be able to understand.

The person concerned pays rates and taxes just like others.
Her daily travel costs are between one annd an half and twice her hourly rate, so she is working between one and a half and two hours just to be there. It’s a sizeable chunk out of her daily pay.
If she could claim travel allowances the same as the MPs she would have more cash available to pay tax for other things.

There is a limit to MPs travel explained quite clearly, but then the same document goes on to say
The Travel and Subsistence budget is uncapped so there are no barriers to MPs, their staff and their families travelling when necessary.

Tax is paid in your earnings

Do people pay tax on a second home abroad? I've never fathomed that.

Freya5

When a four bed detached home opposite me pays less than I do in council tax. The whole thing needs reviewing, my two bed terrace pays also more than a three bed terrace a few miles away. Anomalies need sorting, every single person who uses public services should contribute. Of course they don't want to, hence the failure of the poll tax.

When I say that everyone using public services should pay towards them I am accused of being jealous of those who don't.

Or do you mean everyone who is working should pay and those with the means not to work are excused? Or something altogether different.

It depends on who lives in the 4 bed house. If the council tax is lower than you pay it may be a single person household or someone with dementia, where there is a reduced price. Quite rightly.
I understood that when property changes hands they are re banded then, so if the owner has lived there for decades they will still be banded under 1990 rates.
Re banding all homes will massively increase everyone’s council tax given the huge property increases since 1990 but money is needed to pay for the public services we all use and need which have been run down due to lack of investment over the last 14 years.

I doubt anyone would disagree with carers getting paid for travel time, except it will add to costs, as will the rise in the minimum wage.

Wyllow3

I doubt anyone would disagree with carers getting paid for travel time, except it will add to costs, as will the rise in the minimum wage.

I certainly don't disagree, but who's going to pay?

PS. Cue Maizie telling us that money can be 'created'. Unfortunately, councils aren't in the same position as governments and do have to get the money from somewhere. If council tax doesn't increase, where will the money be found?

Mollygo

^What on earth does councils' providing services have to do with NHS workers' car parking charges?^

You think people should pay more towards care etc. Not a bad idea, except that you make that proclamation without knowing anything about their earnings and the amount they have to live on.

I’ll explain it more clearly, though I doubt if you’ll be able to understand.

The person concerned pays rates and taxes just like others.
Her daily travel costs are between one annd an half and twice her hourly rate, so she is working between one and a half and two hours just to be there. It’s a sizeable chunk out of her daily pay.
If she could claim travel allowances the same as the MPs she would have more cash available to pay tax for other things.

There is a limit to MPs travel explained quite clearly, but then the same document goes on to say
The Travel and Subsistence budget is uncapped so there are no barriers to MPs, their staff and their families travelling when necessary.

Tax is paid in your earnings

No, I most certainly did not say people should pay more towards their care! I don't know how you came up with that.

In fact, what I've written is exactly the opposite. If people pay more in council tax (or any other tax for that matter), the cost of social care (and some other public services) is spread with (in an ideal world) those with more valuable assets contributing more. People with less valuable assets in the form of cheaper housing will pay less, but still be entitled to care when they need it.

Freya5

When a four bed detached home opposite me pays less than I do in council tax. The whole thing needs reviewing, my two bed terrace pays also more than a three bed terrace a few miles away. Anomalies need sorting, every single person who uses public services should contribute. Of course they don't want to, hence the failure of the poll tax.

You can appeal if you think you have been wrongly assessed. There is information on Martin Lewis’s Money Saving Expert website.

Wyllow3

"Mrs Badenoch had asked Sir Keir whether the current 5 per cent cap on council tax rises would be maintained but he dodged the question. No 10 subsequently said the cap would be kept as it is.”

So whats the problem? The cap remains and its as it has previously been, up to local councils. I'm just so aware FGT of the people in my own family who need help - an MiL who needs carers and there aren't enough, unless you can pay privately

I'm thinking of my dearest GD, who. has multiple disabilities and relies non special schools, and the taxi services to get here there, I'm thinking of the support our council struggles to give to family centres, which try to maintain the "Sure Start" facilities, and gives support to food banks.

Its all very well for Badenoch to stand up and ask oh so clever catch them out questions at PMQ, but lets start from actual real people and real needs.

Perhaps Wyllow3 you might spare a thought for thos pensioners, whose incomes are just too high to keep the winter fuel allowance, who now see another £100plus tax rise come through the door. What should they cut to pay for it? heat or fuel?

What about families, where both parents are paid close to the minimum wage, carers perhaps, seperately juggling work and child care - then this bill comes through the door.

You see, this is what happens when you start dealing in emotional blackmail. Poeple on the other side of the discussion can do it too - and where does that get anyone. Discuss the facts and cut out the blackmail.

You mean people like me MOnica?

Sorry, but this looks like virtual signalling.

I expect council tax to rise by 5% - that's the level which was set by the Conservative government and the percentage it rose last year. We're talking about an average of £2 a week. How much fuel or food could people buy for that amount?

Of course, I'd rather have kept the Winter Fuel Allowance and I'd rather prices didn't keep rising across the board. Nobody in my close family has ever needed social care, si I'm paying for other people, which I'm happy to do. £2 a week is peanuts, if it enables carers to be paid a little more and more places to be available to take the pressure off NHS bed blocking. (Actually, as David pointed out upthread, the increase needs to be much higher.)

I am very dissapointed with this Goverment. Hike in council tax, losing my winter fuel allowance. Most people who agree with this (not all) are people who get their council tax paid for and can claim wfa.
The poor pensioners who are a few pounds over and cannot get PC are the ones I feel sorry for. They are the poor one's.
I did not vote Labour and so glad I did not.

PS. Cue Maizie telling us that money can be 'created'. Unfortunately, councils aren't in the same position as governments and do have to get the money from somewhere.

Why should I say that? That would be silly. I'm well aware that councils can't 'create' any money.

OTOH, the allocation from central government could be increased if there was the will to do it. But they won't because they are too hung up on futile book balancing.

rafichagran

I am very dissapointed with this Goverment. Hike in council tax, losing my winter fuel allowance. Most people who agree with this (not all) are people who get their council tax paid for and can claim wfa.
The poor pensioners who are a few pounds over and cannot get PC are the ones I feel sorry for. They are the poor one's.
I did not vote Labour and so glad I did not.

I don't get WFA and don't get anything towards my council tax - if I did, I'd be really poor and I don't have any problem with making the lives of the really poor a little more bearable. Maybe you do.

PS. I'm so glad you feel sorry for me. I receive £13 over the eligibility limit for Pension Credit.

PPS. What exactly do you think a Conservative government would have done to help these poor people? Or a Reform one for that matter?

No, growstuff I am not virtue signalling but, Willow3 wrote a truly heart breaking sob story of all the people known to her personally who were going to suffer if council tax did not go up and I was just putting the other side of the story with truly heart-breaking sob stories of all the people who would suffer if they did go up.

I consider thise type of thing to be emotional blackmail, and I hope my reply showed that.

Growstuff my sympathies go to people who are a few pounds over PC not you personally. The people who are really suffering. No wfa and no help with council
tax.
These are the people who worked all there lives who are now suffering.
No I don't have a problem making the lives if the poor more bearable, rude if you to even suggest otherwise, the poor I feel sorry for are the people who have worked all their lives and get the higher rate of pension who get all wfa stopped and no help with council tax.
Oh and by the way I did not vote Labour, Conservative, Reform or Lib democracy. I voted for another party.

Weird.
In fact, what I've written is exactly the opposite.
If people pay more in council tax (or any other tax for that matter), the cost of social care (and some other public services) is spread with (in an ideal world) those with more valuable assets
So you are asking people to pay more.
That’s not the opposite.