“Dog-free zones in Wales”

Casdon

Oreo

It’s reported in mainstream news as an item actually.
Hmmmm, I do wonder about agendas as well.🤔

The point is that it's reported on mainstream news accurately, but it’s not reported accurately in the publications mentioned. That makes a huge difference to how people respond.
You’re right that there is an agenda - it’s the Welsh Tory party Senedd representatives who spread it originally, getting their voices heard….now there are no Welsh Tory MPs they are the last bastion here.

You could well be right, who knows 😃

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Exactly Casdon, but some chose to make it about an 'Islamic State' - despicably.

Oreo

It’s reported in mainstream news as an item actually.
Hmmmm, I do wonder about agendas as well.🤔

The point is that it's reported on mainstream news accurately, but it’s not reported accurately in the publications mentioned. That makes a huge difference to how people respond.
You’re right that there is an agenda - it’s the Welsh Tory party Senedd representatives who spread it originally, getting their voices heard….now there are no Welsh Tory MPs they are the last bastion here.

But all is well, as promised dogs can frolic anywhere in Wales
Woof woof🐶🐶🐶

It’s reported in mainstream news as an item actually.
Hmmmm, I do wonder about agendas as well.🤔

Thank you LizzieD- it seems some are happy to stir up trouble- and immediately jump to blaming Muslim communities and people what is their agenda?

This story is misinformation from The Mail and The Telegraph.

Fact check from Wales Online …

Comment from the Welsh government:

There are NO plans to ban dogs from the countryside and any suggestion otherwise is inaccurate and a complete misrepresentation of the report

I wonder if Welsh sheep farmers are hoping it happens? I'm remembering my old neighbours and their kids being traumatised when they watched their two dogs being shot by a Welsh farmer. Might have been better for everyone if they hadn't been there.

The Countryfile link discussing ethnic minorities and the reasons they give for not walking in the countryside were overwhelmingly reasons that they were too busy at work or at home.They very likely live in cities too and I bet you’ll find that many white residents of cities don’t often get out into countryside either, living busy city lives with entertainment on their doorsteps.
I doubt that the dog issue is an issue at all and that nothing comes of this ‘bright idea’.😄

Of course it's all being blown out of proportion, no one is suggesting making the countyside dog free, banning alcohol in pubs or making restaurants take pork off their menu. It's interesting though to see that people immediately jump to the conclusion it's about making changes to suit Muslims as if people who follow the Islamic faith are the only people who don't access the countryside and who are subject to racism. I wonder why that is and why the media has presented the information in the way it has.
I'm fortunate to live in the countryside, I walk every day in green fields and through woods. In the spring I know where to go to enjoy wild bluebells and daffodils. I have suitable footwear and clothing for my walks. I know the health benefits of being out in the open air in nature but I was born and brought up in the middle of one of our biggest cities. The countryside was an alien place for me until I was an adult but having lived in two lovely parts of the UK for the past 30 years sadly there is an awful lot of racism, people are not always friendly towards people who they see as outsiders, especially if they are different in some way. We have some PYO fields in the area and families come out of the nearest city for a day out, some families are not white and tbh some of the comments I overhear sicken me.

It’s all being blown up out of all proportion.

oh yes, and for what reason? When one of the first comments talks about an 'Islamic State' - yet again.

It’s all being blown up out of all proportion.

Agreed.

I don't mind making changes so that members of minority groups can enjoy the same things that I can, they live in the same country, pay the same taxes and have the same rights to a life as I do

But what changes?

The countryside and public open spaces are there for all to enjoy.

petra

I remember a CountryFile episode covering this subject.
This article really digs down into the numbers and reasons why some minorities don’t use the countryside.

theiaincameron.medium.com/the-countrysides-ethnic-deficit-1e17a5205d1a

Having lived for many years in hot or very hot countries, IMO it’s a cultural thing - you don’t walk much unless you have to. Plus of course walking for fun/recreation, in all too often damp, chilly countryside just isn’t a thing.

Would you be happy then foxie to see pubs not selling alcohol or restaurants not serving pork products? You say you’d be happy to see changes, what changes would you like to see?

Having worked with the Muslim community for many years, I happen to know that Muslims have no interest or desire to prevent other people from enjoying alcohol, pork products, or carrying on normally on Fridays. Do people not realise that Muslims go to work on Fridays too? Nor do they want to stop people from owning dogs or petting dogs, just because some of them prefer not to pet dogs themselves.

It’s all being blown up out of all proportion.

This ruling seems extreme to me :

In Islam , dogs are haram ,
you lose points from your hasanet (good deeds ) but they can be kept if they are working dogs .
Working dogs includes sheep or goat herding and being guard dogs .

Many of my Muslim friends keep dogs and not always for those purposes .
I have never seen any cruelty towards them , but I have seen them being shooed away .
The one thing that is time consuming in having a dog is the preparation before prayers -it takes longer as you should change your clothes because they have been touched by canines .

It all depends on your family and personal views .

If you study Leviticus , Jewish and later Christian doctrines had the similar beliefs .

Oreo

Nowhere are dogs mentioned.😄

actually Oreo there are 2 questions about dogs in the survey and interestingly Bame and Asian people are more than twice as likely to use the countryside if they have dogs than their white counterparts, but less likely without them..

Sago

Yet again the majority are to bow to the minority.

How about cafes not serving pork products, pubs not serving alcohol, women covering up on beaches, businesses closing for Friday prayers?

If someone had told me 20 years ago that this was even being considered I would not have believed them.

The other night my son said exactly the same about my late Dad. He would be turning in his grave if he could see the change since he died in 2007.

Nowhere are dogs mentioned.😄

Interesting link Petra
Reasons given by BAME people for not getting out and about in the countryside overwhelmingly was that they said they were either too busy at work or too busy at home to do it.
Not for any racial reasons or not for lack of transport.If your parents never did it ( walking or rambling in the countryside) then you’re unlikely to do it.There’s a lot more to read if anyone is interested I just had a quick look.

Sago

Yet again the majority are to bow to the minority.

How about cafes not serving pork products, pubs not serving alcohol, women covering up on beaches, businesses closing for Friday prayers?

If someone had told me 20 years ago that this was even being considered I would not have believed them.

I don't mind making changes so that members of minority groups can enjoy the same things that I can, they live in the same country, pay the same taxes and have the same rights to a life as I do. I'm afraid if everyone took your view, people with a disability would still be unable to use public transport, go to the loo in public spaces and share the experience of others at the theatre, football matches etc etc.
The article mentioned is based on focus groups done with a "not very representative group" which was presented to the Senned Cymru and as far as anyone knows is not being used drive any policy changes.
I'm a dog owner, he loves being off lead but he's good to walk on a lead, unfortunately I see lots of dogs who are not under control and are a nuisance and potential threat to everyone else sharing the space. I'm really not surprised that someone in a focus group might say they avoid the countryside because of a concern about dogs (member of an ethnic group or not).
One only has to read the headline to know why these articles in the media were presented in the way they were. I am posting a link to a better piece of research conducted by English Nature in 2005, not a single dog mentioned!

file:///C:/Users/charl/Downloads/DR%20pubsethosfullreporttcm2-27064_tcm6-4024.pdf

As already mentioned, I think it's in part because Muslims consider dogs haram (unclean). Additionally, minority ethnic groups don't use the countryside. There have been many theories put forward about this and it is clearly a disadvantage from a health and well being perspective.

I'm sure Petra's link will explain more but unfortunately I can't open it.

I remember a CountryFile episode covering this subject.
This article really digs down into the numbers and reasons why some minorities don’t use the countryside.

theiaincameron.medium.com/the-countrysides-ethnic-deficit-1e17a5205d1a

Yet again the majority are to bow to the minority.

How about cafes not serving pork products, pubs not serving alcohol, women covering up on beaches, businesses closing for Friday prayers?

If someone had told me 20 years ago that this was even being considered I would not have believed them.