Donald and Elon: two immature guys running the entire US economy.

Median income in the US is $84k that’s £67k the lowest group is Black with £44k, highest are Asians with £100k

I think the UK median is around £32k? So I’m pretty confident they are considerably better off.

A large number of UK cars sent to the US will be Jaguar Landrover, unlike many other brands they don’t have a US manufacturing plant, European cars built in the US have a big advantage

Wyllow3

Thank you for doing the maths, Maisie. Had suspected as much.
I am in no doubt about who will suffer under Trump.

I'm not totally confident about my maths'. I'm not sure if Truss's figure was per capita wealth for each of the whole population of any age or just adults, and I don't know if the Adam Smith figure is income. If it's income, is it average or median (they are different..)? There is no doubt that a 'middling' US citizen has more wealth than an equivalent Brit, but I doubt if it's quite so much.

“The US has 38 million citizens living below the poverty line of $13.788 p.a.”
That’s around 10% of the population

The UK has 22% below the poverty line according to Joseph Rowntree Foudation

MaizieD

growstuff

Something which might affect the UK is the export of cars. The UK exported $7.5 billion worth of cars to the US in the year ending June 2024.

I have read somewhere recently that UK exports to the US are worth £300billion. Tariffs on everything will affect a bit more than car manufacturing..

Despite Truss's figures the election results seem to tell us that a great many Americans feel poor. The top reason given by most for their vote was 'the economy'.

Given that, I'd still like to know how Trump's plans are going to improve the US economy.

Yes, I agree. The US is the UK's biggest single export market. Cars are the second most valuable export and the US is a huge export market for the UK. If the 'rust belt' is regenerated and the number of home-produced cars increases, there's no way that the UK won't be affected.

I picked on cars because it's such a big chunk of the UK's exports. Other exports will no doubt be affected, but to a smaller extent for each product/service.

schnoodlelove Your version of Elon Musk's child doesn't correspond with what the child herself claims:

www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/elon-musk-transgender-daughter-vivian-wilson-interview-rcna163665

Oh, come on, David grin How long do you think it will take to make a difference?

I would say the US has got a better chance of achieving their aim than the UK, I wish Starmer well but there will be too much opposition from his own party to do what is needed.
He has to take notice of the leftwing Trump will just ignore them.

The other reason is that the UK is intending to pursue an environmental agenda and needs to borrow to do it. Maybe that is the right long term aim, Trump is doing the opposite “pump, pump, pump” oil and gas, he's planning to use home resources to boost short term improvement.

Thank you for doing the maths, Maisie. Had suspected as much.
I am in no doubt about who will suffer under Trump.

It’s an easy cliche to automatically trash Liz Truss. After all she wasn’t the chancellor and what freaked out the market was Kwartang’s (backed by Truss as Starmer backs Reeves) wanting to borrow so much to pay everyone help through the energy crisis. The drop of 5% of higher earners tax from 45-40% was negligible. She’s become the knee jerk go to for every financial slur. Yet she had held 8 cabinet posts was liked by her teams for her hard work. I’m not a Tory, I never voted for her but am sick of this unthinking rubbish. Do you think if Reeve’s budget fails Starmer will be jeered at forever? Or perhaps it would be the woman.
Going back to Trump and Musk, it is very silly to try and belittle them as childish fools when their overriding characteristics are as extremely successful men. This is not a fluke. The democratic will of the people was overwhelming, and Musks entrepreneural gifts are legendary. What made him back Trump was his horror of the power of the ‘progressive Left’ in California that had persuaded his gay son that he was trans and given him puberty blockers and hormones when he was still a child (16 in the States) enforcing compliance by Musk under the threat of so called risk of suicide. (‘ better a live girl than a dead son’) He will stop that. Good.

The Adam Smith Institute is as right wing, free market, small state etc. as Liz Truss. Adam Smith himself would be horrified at their interpretation of his work.. They are trying to prove that their economic vision brings great prosperity to a nation....

There's a £9k difference between those figures. Where did Truss's £25k come from?

The US has 38 million citizens living below the poverty line of $13.788 p.a. (roughly £10.66) There must be a helluva lot of very wealthy people to bring average individual wealth $58,136. But the US does have 735 billionaires and 22 million millionaires...

Actually I don’t know how to break it to you all but the lettuce might be more accurate than you think.
The Adam Smith Institute suggests for example 58136 US dollars after paid health care average income . £35464 before taxes to pay for healthcare in the UK. The Adam Smith Institute finds that the US is a richer society with lower tax and less regulation than Britain.
Interesting so who can’t read a knitting pattern now?

Chocolatelovinggran

Hmm - quoting Liz Truss on matters economic: surely not.
She may be a good source of knowledge on other matters, perhaps- knitting, maybe, or croquet, but finance??

I wouldn't trust her with a knitting pattern!

growstuff

Something which might affect the UK is the export of cars. The UK exported $7.5 billion worth of cars to the US in the year ending June 2024.

I have read somewhere recently that UK exports to the US are worth £300billion. Tariffs on everything will affect a bit more than car manufacturing..

Despite Truss's figures the election results seem to tell us that a great many Americans feel poor. The top reason given by most for their vote was 'the economy'.

Given that, I'd still like to know how Trump's plans are going to improve the US economy.

Cutting federal budgets "bureaucracy" will surely mean that more will fall on individual States to manage critical areas.

I forsee a right mess and a great deal of conflict ahead both in State disputes over policy decisions and funding replacement local "bureaucrats",

as someone has to manage the huge social security and medical systems.

For example, Social Security facts:

Managed Federally

"The Social Security Administration (SSA) is one of the largest Federal agencies, with 84,000 employees in its central offices and at more than 1,300 field offices and regional operating centers throughout the nation".

Medicare :

"Is Medicare local state or federal?
federal
Because it's a federal program, Medicare has set standards for costs and coverage. This means a person's Medicare coverage will be the same no matter what state they live in. Medicare-related bills are paid from two trust funds held by the U.S. Treasury."

Something which might affect the UK is the export of cars. The UK exported $7.5 billion worth of cars to the US in the year ending June 2024.

Didn’t mean to upset your sensibilities in mentioning the lettuce but it was the first time that anyone had mentioned how poor we have become here. I don’t know how to even assess the relative difference in wealth inequality between the UK and the USA but I have a horrible feeling that it’s about to get a lot worse for the UK. Happy if anyone has the inclination to investigate this….

Over 50% of the voting population voted for Trump and all the rag tag and bobtail of ministers and advisors he has brought in his train. if they decide later they have made a mistake, and I doubt they will, well that is their problem.

If the put America first means theywill interfere less in other countries affairs, so much the better. the only worry is Ukraine and NATO. On the other hand it might give Europe and the UK a chance to rally round work together and show Trump and his allies how little they really count. America is a failing nation and it has a lot more failing to do.

David49

MaizieD

The US could produce much more of their own needs at home without buying overseas, currently it’s cheaper to import, but that’s at the expense of their own manufacturing industry.

David, the US doesn't have a huge area known as 'the rust belt' for nothing. Their manufacturing industry has declined massively.

How long do you think it's going to take to revive it? From the extraction and processing of raw materials to the setting up of manufacturing supply chains in order to produce the finished product?

I can't see it happening overnight. I don't think that the 4 years theoretically available to the Trump regime will be long enough to make an appreciable difference.

In the meantime tariffs on imported goods will increase the cost of living, particularly for the 'middling classes' which have already been hit by inflation but who are the potential consumers of the revived industries' products.

It’s not going to happen overnight for sure, the old “rust belt” areas need long overdue regeneration,
Personally I think Trump has got a better chance of success than Starmer

Oh, come on, David How long do you think it will take to make a difference?

MaizieD

^The US could produce much more of their own needs at home without buying overseas, currently it’s cheaper to import, but that’s at the expense of their own manufacturing industry.^

David, the US doesn't have a huge area known as 'the rust belt' for nothing. Their manufacturing industry has declined massively.

How long do you think it's going to take to revive it? From the extraction and processing of raw materials to the setting up of manufacturing supply chains in order to produce the finished product?

I can't see it happening overnight. I don't think that the 4 years theoretically available to the Trump regime will be long enough to make an appreciable difference.

In the meantime tariffs on imported goods will increase the cost of living, particularly for the 'middling classes' which have already been hit by inflation but who are the potential consumers of the revived industries' products.

It’s not going to happen overnight for sure, the old “rust belt” areas need long overdue regeneration,
Personally I think Trump has got a better chance of success than Starmer

Hmm - quoting Liz Truss on matters economic: surely not.
She may be a good source of knowledge on other matters, perhaps- knitting, maybe, or croquet, but finance??

The US could produce much more of their own needs at home without buying overseas, currently it’s cheaper to import, but that’s at the expense of their own manufacturing industry.

David, the US doesn't have a huge area known as 'the rust belt' for nothing. Their manufacturing industry has declined massively.

How long do you think it's going to take to revive it? From the extraction and processing of raw materials to the setting up of manufacturing supply chains in order to produce the finished product?

I can't see it happening overnight. I don't think that the 4 years theoretically available to the Trump regime will be long enough to make an appreciable difference.

In the meantime tariffs on imported goods will increase the cost of living, particularly for the 'middling classes' which have already been hit by inflation but who are the potential consumers of the revived industries' products.

David49

Trump did not get a marginal win it was a landslide, what he says and what actually happens is not always the same thing, by being protectionist the risk is controlling inflation. Government borrowing in the US is very high, much higher than the UK, he does need to control or reduce that if he does not the dollar could well loose value quickly.

The US could produce much more of their own needs at home without buying overseas, currently it’s cheaper to import, but that’s at the expense of their own manufacturing industry. The EU is in same position it doesn’t want to damage its
manufacturing base or food production and be dependant on imports. The UK seems to be heading in the opposite direction, no Tariffs yet pursuing an environmental agenda to lower emissions, yet inevitably increasing imports, greenwashing?

Just like the UK he wants to control migration, the US needs migrant workers as we do, I dont see anything wrong with that policy in the UK or US, nor do a great many Latinos, they don’t want uncontrolled migration risking their jobs, As for welfare spending were not going to see mass starvation in the US

We should worry if he is successful because the dollar will get stronger and our imports will get more expensive

Maybe not quite such a landslide in reality.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/kamala-harris-votes-trump-election-swing-states-b2645211.html

ronib

MaizieD no I shall pass on the details. However in this age of insanity, according to Liz Truss, each American citizen has £25k more per head than in the UK, my hope is that somehow the UK mitigates the economic fallout. The UK needs to work out how to deal with Trump’s economic policies.

They probably have more than that BUT they don’t have the same welfare as the UK it’s much more basic, and they have to buy whatever insurance they need to cover health and pension, it’s not a fair comparison.
Having said that my brother and sister are much better off in the US than doing the same work over here.

Ladyleftfieldlover

Very succinctly put and I agree 100%, particularly re Liz “Lettuce” Truss.

ronib

MaizieD no I shall pass on the details. However in this age of insanity, according to Liz Truss, each American citizen has £25k more per head than in the UK, my hope is that somehow the UK mitigates the economic fallout. The UK needs to work out how to deal with Trump’s economic policies.

Why on earth bring Liz Truss to the party!? She nearly wrecked our economy and still thinks she did the right thing. Regarding the dreaded trump, I worry for Ukraine and really wish that Brexit hadn’t happened. We really need to be close to our old friends in Europe. If the USA decide to leave NATO we need to be shoulder to shoulder with Europe. Sadly, the USA have got what they voted for - a felon, a serial sex offender, bankrupt, appalling liar, all packaged in an orange nightmare.