Trump wanting us to ditch Europe.

The morality of arms production disgusts me as does what these arms do in war, but it's a reality.

We buy huge amounts of arms/war related stuff from the USA

It comes as no surprise that European countries would shore up their own and NATO strength. Government Defence Plans, as was made clear in the Gov.UK reference I gave back 2 pages ago.....
www.gov.uk/government/news/landmark-uk-germany-defence-agreement-to-strengthen-our-security-and-prosperity

....... this is not trade as understood by trading normal goods and services involving independent businesses and producers of food or all the other myriad of products

You are correct Petra along with the fact that the US has had nuclear capable aircraft have been based in the U.K. since 1949.

Jess20

I remember living near an American air base in the 70s, wouldn't be surprised if the UK is being sized up as an American nuclear base 😟

The US started planning the return of nuclear bombs at Lakenheath last year.

It was a big mistake Brexit. We can't go back now because the rest of the ECM would make us pay far too high a price. The only way is to try to build bridges outside of the European Market with the rest of Europe included.

ronib

MaizieD Sheffield is not Port Talbot please note. Does Sheffield Forgemasters use coke in the smelting process? Much maligned by Ed Zero?
Since you clearly have information on who is trading or not trading on this vile product so proudly announced by Starmer, please do share as I have to go out.

No, ronib. It is you who asserted that the UK had a separate trade deal with Germany. An assertion you persisted in despite me, and others, telling you that EU member states don't make separate trade deals. You used the making of these gun barrels to support your assertion so it's up to you to prove that it is a 'trade' deal.

The issues of the morality of arms manufacturing and the carcinogenic effects of blast furnaces have nothing at all to do with your assertion of a 'trade deal' being made with an individual EU member state.

I remember living near an American air base in the 70s, wouldn't be surprised if the UK is being sized up as an American nuclear base 😟

Population increase, longevity, medical advances and a wider range of benefits in and out of the NHS show signs of outrunning the UK's capacity to pay for the welfare state through taxation, especially given our poor productivity over decades and the interest cost of borrowing. It means we can hardly afford a modest increase in defence expenditure or improving schools. Brexit has not helped and neither will Trump. I very much doubt any government's ability to grow the economy given the poor performance of both Tories and Labour since the 1950s. Therefore I think something will have to 'give' - a more limited NHS, higher income tax, etc.

Just to fill in the blanks, the gun barrels being made in Sheffield are for the new Challenger111 tanks for the army, our own Challenger11s are worn out. We decided not to build our own replacement so they are being built in Germany by Rheinmetal alongside their own latest Leopard tank.

Wether the barrels are going to be used in the Leopard I’m not sure but probably, it doesn’t make sense to have different guns needing different supplies on the battlefield.

Sheffield Forgemasters produces green steeel ronib.
www.sheffieldforgemasters.com/about-us/corporate-social-responsibility

MaizieD Sheffield is not Port Talbot please note. Does Sheffield Forgemasters use coke in the smelting process? Much maligned by Ed Zero?
Since you clearly have information on who is trading or not trading on this vile product so proudly announced by Starmer, please do share as I have to go out.

ronib

Sheffield Forgemasters is located in Sheffield, South Yorkshire. That’s up north from me

Well, it's down south for me...

You're not going to answer my question, are you? Deflection is the name of the game.

But it always is...

Sheffield Forgemasters is located in Sheffield, South Yorkshire. That’s up north from me

Sarnia I wonder how many people who voted for Brexit regret it now (quite a few if I’m not wrong.) Arrogant in the extreme to say there’s nothing to discuss.
We’re in a mess because of Brexit after being fed lie upon lie and I hope with all my heart that Starmer tries to build bridges.

petra

ronib

Plus the NHS. - cancer is a by product of steel production. But it’s up North, so okay?

ronib
Your idea of up north must be different to mine.
Where would you put Port Talbot 🤷‍♀️
I honestly think you’re having a laugh now.

Exactly, I think the new state of the art steel recycling plant being developed in Port Talbot has bypassed ronib it is joined up thinking - and less dangerous for workers.

business leaders advise trade deals EU

ronib

Plus the NHS. - cancer is a by product of steel production. But it’s up North, so okay?

ronib
Your idea of up north must be different to mine.
Where would you put Port Talbot 🤷‍♀️
I honestly think you’re having a laugh now.

ronib

Casdon what I would like is some joined up thinking…

I'm afraid there's not much joined up about your thinking, ronib.

You are asserting that making these gun barrels is 'trade'. To justify that it has to conform to the definition petra gave.

So let's try it a different way. Is Germany paying for these components?

ronib

Casdon in the same way as not functioning without fossil fuels surely?

Plastic cutlery? Wooden machinery?

How is all this relevant to trade agreements with the US and with the EU?

Trade - that thing buyers and sellers do - You agree to buy £X a year of what we produce and in return we agree to buy £Y a year of what you produce. There may be other requirements in the agreement as well. Each of us can refine the details of the quality, ingredients etc of the various items in the agreement, but once the agreement is made it can't be altered.

Casdon what I would like is some joined up thinking…

Back to mud huts then. Seriously, is that what you really think?

Casdon in the same way as not functioning without fossil fuels surely?

How do you envisage the world functioning without steel ronib?

Steel production is not a safe product. Casdon

ronib

MaizieD the corpses who get shot?

Your ridiculous answers to my question are verging on contemptible.

You are claiming that making barrels for guns as part of a joint project is 'trade'.

Please clarify who is paying money for these barrels.