The Farmers Fight

Keepingquiet it’s assets that cannot be turned into cash without selling them off. So on paper they may have £3 million which is the market value of the house, buildings and fields but they can’t realise it and when they die that will all be taxed.

How do "the economists" get to 70% please Sarnia?

When this was first announced I looked up how many farms applied for the relief over the last few years. The ones that would have paid anything at all under this new system was either 8 or 12% (can't remember which).

Do they maybe mean 70% would be affected by it in that they would feel they have to pass their farms on earlier to their children if they want to be certain to avoid it?

Are they "affected" by it by simply having to think about it?

Please point me towards the maths.

In Wales the conservative vote has always been in agricultural areas

keepingquiet the miners comment was generated by a former top aide to Tony Blair, John McTernan he said

Britain doesn’t need small farmers, and could do without the industry

and

Labour could do to the farmers what Margaret Thatcher did to the miners

The PM has had to distance himself from him and his comments.

Striking, when doctors do it it's bad- but when farmers threaten to do it that's good?

They will not be striking. They will be protesting.
Farmers in general cannot strike, especially if they have livestock to care for. Livestock cannot wait like NHS patients have to wait.

Farmers don’t have the public sector option of working a four day week in the comfort of their urban homes on a 9-5. They don’t have a gold plated pension for shuffling paper around and passing the buck when they fail miserably in their remit and they don’t take £107K worth of freebies.

How many times in our lifetime do we need a doctor? hopefully not too often.

We need farmers and their produce every single day…

GrannyGravy13

How many times in our lifetime do we need a doctor? hopefully not too often.

We need farmers and their produce every single day…

Good point.

David49

25Avalon

Farmers are cash poor and asset rich. Most of their wealth is tied up in the actual farm and buildings, so a 20% inheritance tax will force them to sell the farm rather than for family to continue farming. Leaving land fallow and growing no crops will leave farmers without an income so they would not be able to do it.

No, by growing half the quantity they can cut costs reduce labour and have an easier life, many now employ contractors to do some or all of the work so they will be doing less.

Farmers have very low living costs, the average age is well over 60, most of the younger generation only help out a busy times so they will do more outside the farm, the wife almost always has other work.

Its the food production side of the farm that is very unprofitable

Really? How many workers do you think they employ? It’s mostly themselves working ** hard all day and all year round. If you keep animals they still need feeding and milking whatever day of the year, even Christmas Day.

What do you mean by low living costs? How much money do you think they pay themselves for all the hours? Oh , sorry they don’t need to work so much because they have low living costs. Tell that to the livestock. What tosh.

Suicide rates amongst farmers is one of the highest. It can be a very lonely existence, with low pay and keeping the farm running, and now inheritance tax adding an extra burden. One such farmer has already killed himself.

The wife is usually making cheese, taking in paying guests, doing holiday let’s, setting up and running a farm shop and cafe etc to supplement the income.

John Charlesworth a 78yr old farmer took his own life, siting his fear of the proposed IHT on his farm according to his son.

keepingquiet

I find this whole thing a bit puzzling to be honest.

Why is holding up traffic, causing a public nuisance, dumping cow-shit in Downing Street something to applaud?

We seem to have turned the tables here.

Striking, when doctors do it it's bad- but when farmers threaten to do it that's good?

I don't know much about inheritance tax because I won't ever have to pay it, no one I know has paid it, and my children won't have to pay it either.

Isn't this tax only paid when someone actually dies? It isn't taken from them at source on a regular basis as was the income tax I paid all my fifty years of working life, or is it? Would someone explain when these farmers will have to pay this tax?

I understand the farmers will have to hold over £3 million worth of assets? I find it difficult to feel sorry for someone with that much wealth to be honest.

I heard a farmer recently comparing themselves to the miners, which as someone whose family had been mining for over six generations, was quite frankly insulting. I think if you added up the total wealth my family made from mining for hundreds of years it wouldn't come near £3 million.

Of course we need the food, of course farmers work hard and deserve recognition- but some can't see the problems they face are no more than a little of a consequence of Brexit?

Project Fear has come home to roost and those who said we just had to face a little hardship are now having to deal with that 'hardship'.

Of course not all farmers voted for Brexit- they weren't listened to and now they are havng to deal with the reality like the rest of us.

Why is holding up traffic, causing a public nuisance, dumping cow-shit in Downing Street something to applaud?

When the source of our sustenance and our very existence is threatened.

keepingquiet you seem to be missing the point about this tax. The fact that a farm might be worth £millions is irrelevant if it is to remain as a farm producing food for the population and not to be sold off for housing or to build yet another shopping mall, warehousing etc.
The threshold at which IHT would be paid is £1 million, not £3 million. Farms are often passed down through the generations and each successive generation would be liable for this tax until there would be no farming left in this country.

How do you propose we manage without food?

Here are 2 scenarios:

Person A owns, and works in, a family business. The business is not a farm. It was started by his great grandfather and has been passed down through the generations of his family. Each time the business has passed to the next generation, 40% inheritance tax has been paid.

Person B owns, and works in, a family farm. It was started by his great grandfather and has been passed down through the generations of his family. Each time the farm has passed to the next generation, 0% inheritance tax has been paid.

Fair???

Do we want to live in a world where vast swathes of agricultural land are bought up by the likes of Bill Gates and Black Rock,? their ultimate objective is something we should ponder but it points very much to powerful un-elected individuals/entities having some sort of control over what the food the masses will be eating

LizzieDrip family businesses trading as a limited company are exempt from IHT on all shares held for over two years.

Seems unfair on the farmers to me.

LizzieDrip

Here are 2 scenarios:

Person A owns, and works in, a family business. The business is not a farm. It was started by his great grandfather and has been passed down through the generations of his family. Each time the business has passed to the next generation, 40% inheritance tax has been paid.

Person B owns, and works in, a family farm. It was started by his great grandfather and has been passed down through the generations of his family. Each time the farm has passed to the next generation, 0% inheritance tax has been paid.

Fair???

Well, I wonder what one or two of you live on 🤔

Fresh air?

As a business owner, the value of your trading company is generally not subject to IHT, as it qualifies for Business Relief.
Can you tell me exactly when IHT is paid on businesses, please?

The fact that a farm might be worth £millions is irrelevant if it is to remain as a farm producing food for the population and not to be sold off for housing or to build yet another shopping mall, warehousing etc.

You forgot to mention that the farm is likely to be bought by a very wealthy person seeking to avoid inheritance tax. Not all farmland is adjacent to urban areas and likely to be sold for housing, shopping malls, etc.

If future generations of farmers’ sons (and let’s not forget the daughters) have to keep nibbling away at productive land, selling it off to pay inheritance tax, there will be no farms left to pass on.
Farmers don’t just provide us with food, they are custodians of the British countryside.

MaizieD

^The fact that a farm might be worth £millions is irrelevant if it is to remain as a farm producing food for the population and not to be sold off for housing or to build yet another shopping mall, warehousing etc.^

You forgot to mention that the farm is likely to be bought by a very wealthy person seeking to avoid inheritance tax. Not all farmland is adjacent to urban areas and likely to be sold for housing, shopping malls, etc.

Yes, but TerriBull points out the perils of farms being bought up by corporations, private equity funds etc as future generations may find it impossible to pay the IHT and make a living.

Do we want that?

Look what has happened to some of our care homes which were bought by a soulless private equity firm.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Farmers don’t have the public sector option of working a four day week in the comfort of their urban homes on a 9-5. They don’t have a gold plated pension for shuffling paper around and passing the buck when they fail miserably in their remit and they don’t take £107K worth of freebies.

Over bloated public sector office based jobs are out of kilter with the reality of what is sustainable in the private sector. I imagine if employees who have always been employed in the public sector switch into a non based government position in the private sector they might be in for somewhat of an awakening.

MaizieD

^The fact that a farm might be worth £millions is irrelevant if it is to remain as a farm producing food for the population and not to be sold off for housing or to build yet another shopping mall, warehousing etc.^

You forgot to mention that the farm is likely to be bought by a very wealthy person seeking to avoid inheritance tax. Not all farmland is adjacent to urban areas and likely to be sold for housing, shopping malls, etc.

Not all warehousing, shopping malls, are next to urban areas either.

Many are in the countryside.

there is a hidden agenda.

Forced iht land sales to the men in suits, who build massive solar farms to generate lots of income. Similar to provide the housing that the boat people have come to expect

I know several farmers, land custodians, who work incredibly long hours day in day out. Mucky conditions in all weathers. They don`t earn more than a survival pittance

Look after our farmers, or else

Allira

MaizieD

The fact that a farm might be worth £millions is irrelevant if it is to remain as a farm producing food for the population and not to be sold off for housing or to build yet another shopping mall, warehousing etc.

You forgot to mention that the farm is likely to be bought by a very wealthy person seeking to avoid inheritance tax. Not all farmland is adjacent to urban areas and likely to be sold for housing, shopping malls, etc.

Yes, but TerriBull points out the perils of farms being bought up by corporations, private equity funds etc as future generations may find it impossible to pay the IHT and make a living.

Do we want that?

Look what has happened to some of our care homes which were bought by a soulless private equity firm.

No, we don't want that, Allira. Which is why the government has tried to curtail the practice by imposing IHT on the inheritance of land.

When it comes down to it, unless you want to impose some sort of controls on who is actually 'allowed' to buy land I can't see an alternative. Maybe others can?

As a retired farmer I would really like to know how Reeves is calculating her "only 20% of farmers will be affected" .
We were in Warwickshire where the majority of farms are over 300 acres - which equates to a value of at least £3 million so all of these would be affected. In fact a 300 acre farm is considered small and only just economic there.
As for David's suggestion that farmers should only farm on alternate years - I'm gobsmacked that anyone should be so ignorant about how farming actually works!

Similar to provide the housing that the boat people have come to expect

What?

So Just Stop Oil disrupting the traffic is bad, but farmers doing the same is cheered on.