The Farmers Fight

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

Housing is irrelevant to this topic

Actually MaizieD it isn’t as the Deputy PM has stated repeatedly that this Government will allow building homes on greenfield sites. I wouldn’t be surprised if Labour allow PDR’s on farmland.

It is when we are talking about land sales to foreign investors.

I think you are missing the point that once foreign investors have purchased land in the U.K. it is theirs to do with as they wish provided they get the appropriate change of use permission.

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Sure the NFU would say that .

Much is just being put into environmental crops to get those payments, a large estate adjacent to me has taken all 2000 acres out of production.
Many others are going the same way, if they tried to farm it they wouldn’t make money by the time they paid agents and managers.

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

Housing is irrelevant to this topic

Actually MaizieD it isn’t as the Deputy PM has stated repeatedly that this Government will allow building homes on greenfield sites. I wouldn’t be surprised if Labour allow PDR’s on farmland.

It is when we are talking about land sales to foreign investors.

I think you are missing the point that once foreign investors have purchased land in the U.K. it is theirs to do with as they wish provided they get the appropriate change of use permission.

It doesn’t have to be a foreign investor, anyone can do that “BUT” why would they, they then loose the IHT concession.
You can develope it into a golf course, housing estate or whatever you want, there are no concessions.
That is the disadvantage of diversified enterprises there is no IHT concession, you pay business rates too, so to be worthwhile you must have a high income, which you then pay income tax on.

David49

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

Housing is irrelevant to this topic

Actually MaizieD it isn’t as the Deputy PM has stated repeatedly that this Government will allow building homes on greenfield sites. I wouldn’t be surprised if Labour allow PDR’s on farmland.

It is when we are talking about land sales to foreign investors.

I think you are missing the point that once foreign investors have purchased land in the U.K. it is theirs to do with as they wish provided they get the appropriate change of use permission.

It doesn’t have to be a foreign investor, anyone can do that “BUT” why would they, they then loose the IHT concession.
You can develope it into a golf course, housing estate or whatever you want, there are no concessions.
That is the disadvantage of diversified enterprises there is no IHT concession, you pay business rates too, so to be worthwhile you must have a high income, which you then pay income tax on.

The consequence being that more productive farmland is lost.

That was the whole point!

Allira

David49

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

Housing is irrelevant to this topic

Actually MaizieD it isn’t as the Deputy PM has stated repeatedly that this Government will allow building homes on greenfield sites. I wouldn’t be surprised if Labour allow PDR’s on farmland.

It is when we are talking about land sales to foreign investors.

I think you are missing the point that once foreign investors have purchased land in the U.K. it is theirs to do with as they wish provided they get the appropriate change of use permission.

It doesn’t have to be a foreign investor, anyone can do that “BUT” why would they, they then loose the IHT concession.
You can develope it into a golf course, housing estate or whatever you want, there are no concessions.
That is the disadvantage of diversified enterprises there is no IHT concession, you pay business rates too, so to be worthwhile you must have a high income, which you then pay income tax on.

The consequence being that more productive farmland is lost.

That was the whole point!

I don't think you read David's reply quite right.

^It doesn’t have to be a foreign investor, anyone can do that “BUT” why would they they then loose the IHT concession.T

He was saying that (up until now) there was an advantage to keeping land as farmland because there was no IHT paid on it. Other enterprises would attract taxation in one form or another.

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

Housing is irrelevant to this topic

Actually MaizieD it isn’t as the Deputy PM has stated repeatedly that this Government will allow building homes on greenfield sites. I wouldn’t be surprised if Labour allow PDR’s on farmland.

It is when we are talking about land sales to foreign investors.

I think you are missing the point that once foreign investors have purchased land in the U.K. it is theirs to do with as they wish provided they get the appropriate change of use permission.

A local pressure group, fully supported by our 3 Labour councillors just successfully prevented a planning application to build on green belt. We were a village, now a suburb like so many places.
It wasn’t productive farmland but its home to ancient woodlands and deer, birds of prey and more. We plan to oppose another application to build 300 houses on parkland. We seek to convince planners it should be a new country park providing safe habitat for trees, shrubs and animals/birds.
Our 3 councillors fully support us.
Our local farmers these days are sheep and cattle though we’ve lost 4 small dairy farms in the 50 years I’ve lived hete

Just as a matter of interest, Iam64, does your group have an alternative site to propose for those 300 houses?

MaizieD yes, we have large areas of grey and brown fields. The council sold one such area to a developer for £4 recently. I appreciate we sound like the developer described us, a small vociferous but noisy group. The reality is the roads are choked, our schools full, GP dittto. 300 houses probably means 600 cars as transport links are poor. One village has one bus a day.
Our town centre has many opportunities for affordable housing. The developer stands to make much more profit building here where housing is more expensive.

GrannyGravy13

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I trust the NFU much more than the Government. They are an integral part of the farming community and well placed to know what the true situation is. The majority of farmers are members. They insure with the NFU, consult them for legal advice, attend monthly meetings of their local branches, enter crop and livestock competitions organised by the NFU. Local branches are likely to have dealt personally with families for several generations. They attend funerals and know exactly what each farm situation is

eddiecat78 I agree.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202411/medium-155109-img-1153.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202411/medium-25862-img-1152.png

Bill Gates visited the PM before the budget, is the future of British Farming?

I will be out protesting if it is…

Yes, I know much of the NFU, I lived in Powys Wales for many
years

GrannyGravy13

Bill Gates visited the PM before the budget, is the future of British Farming?

I will be out protesting if it is…

Money talks

I'm no expert here. Does this also mean like lab-grown meat to replace cows? Yuck!

Control of food production means more control of populations.

What is it with mega-rich men? They could be using their wealth to help alleviate poverty but they won't relinquish power. They want to control.
Gates, Musk - what is their end game?

Bill Gates also visited Keir Starmer. 2022, The Melinda Gates
Foundation, the worlds poor is increasing

I agree about keeping as much land as possible in food production, and wondering about how it could be done given that on the whole only larger units of farming can produce food at prices pushed down by supermarkets and by imports.
Not so sure how! Just checked up how Trump pushed out local farmers for his playground golf course.

Allira

Control of food production means more control of populations.

What is it with mega-rich men? They could be using their wealth to help alleviate poverty but they won't relinquish power. They want to control.
Gates, Musk - what is their end game?

Good question and one can use the argument on a much smaller scale as I said where investors buy land for play or simply to hoard their money with no concern for food.

Can it be legislated? I've said so many times we need "food policy".

Allira

Control of food production means more control of populations.

What is it with mega-rich men? They could be using their wealth to help alleviate poverty but they won't relinquish power. They want to control.
Gates, Musk - what is their end game?

Where does Dyson stand on the spectrum of disapproval of rich men taking over farming in the UK?

Dyson's operation sounds admirable but I imagine that the initial investment he made would be far out of the reach of small farmers.

Is it only achievable on a large scale? Can it be adapted to suit small units and be equally profitable?

www.wevolver.com/article/engineering-the-fields-dysons-leap-from-gadgets-to-agriculture.

As I have said before, this looks to be the future of food production if increasing production in a sustainable way is what we need. In which case the small units could go under because they are not viable.

I have to confess, like GG13 I would be against the prospect of Bill Gates buying up UK farmland. I 'm against any foreigners buying up our finite resources. But what about our native 'wealth'?

What Dyson has done is impressive, but yes the investments were huge. but he has a real commitment to food production.

Wyllow3

What Dyson has done is impressive, but yes the investments were huge. but he has a real commitment to food production.

Still has to pay (or his heirs do) his IHT

But my question is really, is this sort of farming replicable by a variety of farm sizes or can it only be achieved on a large scale and by having the wealth to invest in it?

Dyson has a lot of arable land but areas of the country like up here where its just sheep with a little dairy are in a very different situation?

The NFU campaigned to lower drinking water standards so that farmers can put higher amounts of pesticides into waterways, consistently blocked Right to Roam legislation, blocked full ban on hunting with hounds, and turn a blind eye to its members hunting foxes, presides over a membership that takes over £50m government subsidies a year, lobbies against scale of agricultural food waste being made public.
No, I don't trust the NFU.