The Farmers Fight

Jeanathome

madalene

Jeanathome

Why are people labeled as virtue signaling? Such a silly phrase.

Signaling to who? Nobody cares, nobody is listening.

Really?
I think plenty of people listen to Greta Thunberg.

But it’s pointless Greta Thunberg, or Just Stop Oil, or anyone else who likes to virtue signal, protesting about carbon emissions if they’re not prepared to eat British food

How would this work if she is in Sweden?

Just Stop Oil, or anyone else
Who presumably live in the UK.

madalene it's true about the pizza and fish fingers etc as even cheap food is not available to all - yes, smoked salmon was not a great example(!) - but I know that my mother-in-law (who is predominantly a Waitrose shopper!) no longer buys "proper" smoked salmon and buys two packs of the cheapest one every week. She started doing this because it's inexpensive.
I bought some (expensive) better quality, wild smoked salmon for her birthday and she was amazed that she didn't like it. It was too "rich"... I suppose we learn to like what we buy!

I've thought about this "blanding" of foods a lot as my daughter-in-law buys a lot of chicken breasts and doesn't care about the provenance even though they can afford to. My son-in-law however only used to buy meats directly from the farm.

I notice the sweeter, less distinct apples are in the supermarkets summer or winter and the strawberries are cheap enough to import all year. The newer varieties are less tasty but look more perfect than the old ones.

Even cheese... cheap cheese is normally quite bland. More artisan types are more expensive but taste so much fuller/rounded.

Someone earlier was comparing grocery shopping here to France. In France I expect they are only just starting out on the mass production "blanding" of products but if they don't demand quality food then future generations may well shop as we do in the UK.

Wyllow3

*namsnanny*, it's not a like for like comparison as regards the Netherlands and the US food production.

The Netherlands has very high EU food/farming standards and
recent policy includes incentives for small and medium farms
(since they too feel large scale farms not the only way to go) Bit of a read, but all in here
agriculture.ec.europa.eu/news/commission-approves-cap-strategic-plan-netherlands-2022-12-13_en#:~:text=€17.5%20million%20will%20be,“at%20a%20glance”%20documents.

It's not a like for like comparison ...

Who said it was? I was, pointing to the financial groups who were buying up land suitable for agriculture, and taking it out of use.
Primarily to enable them to have a monopoly on food production.
Thereby taking the power away from consumers to 'choose' for them selves

Handing power to un elected bureaucrats, or banks or so called 'philanthropists' is a dangerous situation to put a country into, and needs much thought.

The link didn't give much info and was possibly out of date, as it was said last night that even the French farmers were querying the need for unelected members making decisions about farming.
Which seemed quite a turn around to me.

She can eat Swedish food. I would have thought that much was self evident. What she shouldn’t be eating, given her message, is kiwis and avocados, and maybe she stands by her principles. But the point is, lots of Gransnetters tell us all about their green habits, but may very well be eating foods flown in from all over the world. Recycling your cardboard boxes that your kiwis are packed in isn’t going to make up for the air miles from bringing in the kiwis from New Zealand.

madalene

Jeanathome

Why are people labeled as virtue signaling? Such a silly phrase.

Signaling to who? Nobody cares, nobody is listening.

Really?
I think plenty of people listen to Greta Thunberg.

But it’s pointless Greta Thunberg, or Just Stop Oil, or anyone else who likes to virtue signal, protesting about carbon emissions if they’re not prepared to eat British food

How would this work if she is in Sweden?

Allira

Wyllow3

I can understand that eddiecat for those on the margins working like that. Is it a problem is will the next generation be willing to do this on small farms, and it's not just related to the IT issue.

So we have to ask ourselves Why.

I think, reading some posts on this thread, the answer is obvious.
Farmers are undervalued, derided and considered to be the wealthy elite.
A view shared by Rachel Reeves.

On the contrary. it's made me think very hard about the issues of small farms and larger landowners and food pricing - no deriding here.

There is a wealthy elite and there are the pretty comfortably off as well as struggling small farms.

Reeves is bringing in what should have been done some time ago, which is those who can afford it pay their way re land ownership assets.

I think the discussion lies properly in the levels set on IT not the principle.

Excellent post eddiecat.

Jeanathome

Why are people labeled as virtue signaling? Such a silly phrase.

Signaling to who? Nobody cares, nobody is listening.

Really?
I think plenty of people listen to Greta Thunberg.

(replying to Lizzie)

Well I think it could be an issue on the margins, but I think it's past of a bigger issue about food production and food pricing going into the future.
One generation - ours - has seen the rise of cheap food and supermarket dominance and food flown in.

NotSpaghetti

Casdon I don't think it's choice that makes people buy cheap mass-produced chicken or the cheap imported onions (I saw these in the supermarket last week).

I think it's mainly price. It's been going on so long that many families no longer like "wild" smoked salmon for example- having bought the blander farmed variety which is so much cheaper, many don't even buy a free range chicken anymore as they buy "chicken breasts" which are also blander. I think we are getting used to cheap (and bland) and that becomes normal.

The supermarket drives down prices paid to farmers and people respond by buying the cheaper items. Then they get accustomed to the cheap item and that becomes the "norm"

This is just my view. I've not read any studies on it.

But I think it’s likely that your view is correct NS.

Except that in the very poor area where I worked for many years, I think it was highly unlikely any of the parents of children in my school bought salmon, wild, farmed, or even tinned. Pizza and oven chips was the more likely dinner for many of my pupils, or McDonalds, or fish fingers and oven chips. If they were lucky they might have got a roast dinner on Sunday (but I’d guess it would not have been a free range chicken!)

Why are people labeled as virtue signaling? Such a silly phrase.

Signaling to who? Nobody cares, nobody is listening.

Wyllow3

I can understand that eddiecat for those on the margins working like that. Is it a problem is will the next generation be willing to do this on small farms, and it's not just related to the IT issue.

So we have to ask ourselves Why.

I think, reading some posts on this thread, the answer is obvious.
Farmers are undervalued, derided and considered to be the wealthy elite.
A view shared by Rachel Reeves.

I agree Wyllow.

The fact that farming is a hard job and the IHT tax issue are not related IMO.

I can understand that eddiecat for those on the margins working like that. Is it a problem is will the next generation be willing to do this on small farms, and it's not just related to the IT issue.

Just to point out that farmers, like many small businesses, are self employed. They do not get holiday pay, or sick pay or company pensions. Some have expensive critical illness insurance in case they are unable to work. And, if they can afford it, they try to pay into private pensions. During bad years these safeguards tend to go by the board.
They work ridiculously long hours - I know several who milked cows on their wedding days. And there is no such thing as maternity/paternity leave for farmers.
On the whole they just get on with it without serious complaint - but this tax change has made them feel totally under valued.

Thanks Wyllow3.

Casdon I don't think it's choice that makes people buy cheap mass-produced chicken or the cheap imported onions (I saw these in the supermarket last week).

I think it's mainly price. It's been going on so long that many families no longer like "wild" smoked salmon for example- having bought the blander farmed variety which is so much cheaper, many don't even buy a free range chicken anymore as they buy "chicken breasts" which are also blander. I think we are getting used to cheap (and bland) and that becomes normal.

The supermarket drives down prices paid to farmers and people respond by buying the cheaper items. Then they get accustomed to the cheap item and that becomes the "norm"

This is just my view. I've not read any studies on it.

NotSpaghetti

madalene

Where was it reported that farmers have to pay for the NHS please?

A quick google shows headlines from Telegraph and GB news, to name two, reporting it as "Farmers should pay for NHS"

as opposed to what she actually said which I reported above from the independent

"telling farmers they must pay their share to fund public services including the NHS

clear example of selecting a part sentence to push a right wing narrative.

Casdon I love swede mashed with a bit of salt and pepper and a knob of better, yum.

But it’s pointless Greta Thunberg, or Just Stop Oil, or anyone else who likes to virtue signal, protesting about carbon emissions if they’re not prepared to eat British food. I maybe at an advantage here because I love vegetables and dairy. Don’t eat much meat, although I do eat a little. As it happens, I also love avocado and kiwis, but I don’t buy them often, they’re a treat, because I’m very much aware of the air miles.

We all need to be aware. We all need to support British farming.

telling farmers they must pay their share to fund public services including the NHS

Presumably they are paying income tax, NI and employers' NI if they can afford to employ workers?

So is that not their share, in fact the same as so many people pay?

Some, of course do not eg MPs who manage to avoid tax, people who work just a few hours then claim Government money.

Everyone wants better services but no one thinks they should have to pay for them. Tesco make billions in profits but are moaning about NI raises.

madalene

Where was it reported that farmers have to pay for the NHS please?

Price has a lot to do with it

Precisely!

There are many young families struggling to put any food on the table - who is speaking up for them? They don’t have the choice that farmers have to sell off a bit of land to make some money.

Yet, farmers object to paying their fair into the country, through tax, in order to help make life a bit fairer for everyone!

escaped

Trust the French farmers to choose a beautiful tv presenter who has set up her own farm to aid them in their protests. Kudos to them. They certainly do things differently!
I like Jeremy for many reasons, but he has a long way to go yet!

Ha ha. Yes.
...No photos of him in underwear lying on a sandy beach!