The Farmers Fight

nonnato
Who are the ‘far right bully boys’?
Tommy Robinson supporters, EDF and similar organisations

HousePlantQueen

GrannyGravy13

Allira

I read the police will arrest farmers driving tractors into London tomorrow.

On what grounds?

If they do start arresting farmers for a peaceful protest then it is definitely two tier policing.

Hmm. I wonder how many of those on GN who are supporting the farmers as they propose to block roads in London, cause chaos etc., are the same GN posters who called for the strongest penalties for the Just Stop Oil protesters when they block roads and stopped the public from going about their business?

I am anti Just Stop Oil as all they do is disrupt along with defacing buildings. If they practiced what they preached I might have more respect for them.

As I posted upthread NO FARMERS, NO FOOD

They have given plenty of notice of tomorrow’s demonstration as required by law, something Just Stop Oil do not always do.

If pro Palestine marches can bring towns and cities to a halt on numerous occasions, one day of disruption by farmers is a small price to play in order for the U.K. to have a modicum of food security.

Vegamsrock
How do the people you mention bully and who are they bullying, and where have you seen this happening before.
Evidence please.

Well said Granny G.

There have been some very unpleasant posts on here today - unnecessary.

vegansrock

The far right bully boys are going to be piggy backing on this protest.

I wouldn't use those terms. Rather, I'd say that there are powerful landowners involved who do not really have the everyday concerns of small farmers on their minds, rather, that they want to keep the status quo which benefits them so much, ie no IT.

Not just that, but they are often first in line to buy up local small farms to turn them into industrial type managed conglomerates.
Small farmers can't often compete with them because of economic of scale unless they are very innovative and produce high end specialised products.

Jeremy Clarkson being one, of course:

"The Conservative-supporting landowner previously said that he bought his 126-hectare £4.25m farm, ‘Diddly Squat’, to avoid paying inheritance tax on his estate. As The Guardian reported, in a 2021 interview with The Times Clarkson said avoiding inheritance tax was “the critical thing” in his decision to buy the farm".

Politically?

The Telegraph
"Michael Deacon
Britain needs its own Donald Trump. Step forward Jeremy Clarkson". (regular GB presenter)

Definitely not to assume his interests are in line with those of struggling small farms, at all

I've also re-read all the "Fact checks" about how many affected: however I still think the levels need revision.

Sarnia

Infuriated farmers will be protesting against Labour's 'Tractor Tax' opposite Downing Street tomorrow. They are being asked not to bring farm machinery but I hope they clutter up Whitehall with every tractor and combine harvester they can lay their hands on. Reeves claims 'only' 20% of farms will be affected by her latest smash and grab raid but economists say it is nearer 70%. Has it not figured in her brain that if farmers, who already struggle to make ends meet, chuck in the towel, there will be a serious food shortage?

firstly, the 70% has been questioned by fact checks: but secondly, to look at

"Has it not figured in her brain that if farmers, who already struggle to make ends meet, chuck in the towel, there will be a serious food shortage?"

No, this is not an obvious conclusion.

Small farms are frequently bought up by large farming conglomerates, managed on an industrial scale, where economies can be made on food production.

They are still producing food, but by different means. Managers and farm workers, some seasonal. We won't miss out on food, but we will miss out on a way of life that has gone on for centuries. And this is what hurts!

What started out as a hobby farm & tax incentive for Jeremy Clarkson has definitely changed over the years. He is passionate about Diddly Squat, fortunately he has other streams of income to support the farm and expand into the farm shop, cafe, etc and now his pub/restaurant using only British sourced produce.

There are many farmers who acknowledge that JC has done more for farming and farmers since his programme has aired than Country File has in all its years on the BBC.

Wyllow3 I for one am definitely not happy with the thought of more conglomerates buying up smaller farms.

What will be left of the so called British way of life for our GC and GGC?

Good posts GrannyGravy.
I’m unfortunately not surprised by some posts in this thread that show class war fare in all its horrible glory. The farmers provide our food. We already import far more food than we should if we wish genuinely to cut carbon emissions. Locally produced food produced fewer carbon emissions.

But don’t forget, when Starmer told us all he didn’t want to tell people how to live their lives last week, he also said that we’ve got to eat less meat and less dairy food in the future. I eat very little meat (I do eat some) but I eat a lot of dairy produce - yoghurt, cheese, milk, etc. I also eat eggs, which were categorised as dairy (although they’re not) when I did my Domestic Science O Level. I also eat and use quite a lot of eggs. So Starmer doesn’t want to tell us how to live our lives but says eat less meat and less dairy. The consequence of that of course, is fewer farms necessary.

TerriBull

Do we want to live in a world where vast swathes of agricultural land are bought up by the likes of Bill Gates and Black Rock,? their ultimate objective is something we should ponder but it points very much to powerful un-elected individuals/entities having some sort of control over what the food the masses will be eating

What you have said is so true Terribull

This pressure on farmers is a world wide action.
Have people forgotten what has happened to the Dutch farmers?

America is the top world producer of food.
The Netherlands were second.
Both have had swathes of agri land bought by those hoping to make a financial killing by industrialising productuon of our food, in factories they own using who knows what as the basic ingredients.

Home grown is the only way to guarantee the quality, and our grand childrens health.

Well said karmalady

Thanks for the link Lizzie - so, assuming the farms are passed on to family the actual number of estates which will be subject to this is 117 - ish

Yes, NotSpaghetti, according to the data verified by BBC Verify.

GrannyGravy13

Wyllow3 I for one am definitely not happy with the thought of more conglomerates buying up smaller farms.

What will be left of the so called British way of life for our GC and GGC?

Well, I agree, GG13: about a way of life we respect and recognise.

However, it is not accurate to say we will stop producing food. Neither is it true that quality would be compromised (in terms of UK food standards requirements

(That is true of US farmers whose standards are much lower use of chemicals, hormones in cattle, etc)

Small farms often survive by producing 'artisan" or organic products for those of us who can afford it. Ironically, Clarkson's products fall into this category

Wyllow3

GrannyGravy13

Wyllow3 I for one am definitely not happy with the thought of more conglomerates buying up smaller farms.

What will be left of the so called British way of life for our GC and GGC?

Well, I agree, GG13: about a way of life we respect and recognise.

However, it is not accurate to say we will stop producing food. Neither is it true that quality would be compromised (in terms of UK food standards requirements

(That is true of US farmers whose standards are much lower use of chemicals, hormones in cattle, etc)

Small farms often survive by producing 'artisan" or organic products for those of us who can afford it. Ironically, Clarkson's products fall into this category

Well if artisan products whether they be grain, rare breeds etc. keep some of the traditional farming ways of life going then I am 100% behind any farmer or retailer who supports this.

I am fortunate to have a farm shop nearby in which I shop regularly.

As we are constantly being told that over use of chemicals, fertiliser, processed foods and additives are bad for humans and the planet maybe it’s time to revert to more traditional methods.

Many small farms have reintroduced hedgerows and re wilded spaces to encourage pollinators and wildlife.

These large so called conglomerate farms are only interested in profit, I doubt those at the top have ever put a foot on the land they own.

I seem to remember the EU paying farmers to keep areas of their land crop free to help local wildlife. It was called set aside I think?

namsnanny, it's not a like for like comparison as regards the Netherlands and the US food production.

The Netherlands has very high EU food/farming standards and
recent policy includes incentives for small and medium farms
(since they too feel large scale farms not the only way to go) Bit of a read, but all in here
agriculture.ec.europa.eu/news/commission-approves-cap-strategic-plan-netherlands-2022-12-13_en#:~:text=€17.5%20million%20will%20be,“at%20a%20glance”%20documents.

MayBee70

I seem to remember the EU paying farmers to keep areas of their land crop free to help local wildlife. It was called set aside I think?

Yes the EU did, the scheme was abolished in 2008.

I agree GG13 on supporting them as much as possible - of course.

But to be competitive in the supermarkets UK food has to compete as things stand if you can't afford higher prices.

It's not only small farmers engaged in re-wilding projects, but a lot more could be done. There are limited grants.

Its not as simple as small farms versus enormous conglomerates size wise, we have a variety.

Two tier policing if they don’t treat the farmers and the far right the same as environmental protesters. I’ll be surprised if it isn’t a peaceful protest

GrannyGravy13

MayBee70

I seem to remember the EU paying farmers to keep areas of their land crop free to help local wildlife. It was called set aside I think?

Yes the EU did, the scheme was abolished in 2008.

Set Aside was to prevent overproduction. Remember beef and butter mountains, and a milk lake?

GrannyGravy13

What started out as a hobby farm & tax incentive for Jeremy Clarkson has definitely changed over the years. He is passionate about Diddly Squat, fortunately he has other streams of income to support the farm and expand into the farm shop, cafe, etc and now his pub/restaurant using only British sourced produce.

There are many farmers who acknowledge that JC has done more for farming and farmers since his programme has aired than Country File has in all its years on the BBC.

Jeremy Clarkson still doesn't make a living from his farm.

If small farmers are worried about anything what they really need to be protesting about is the fact that the high cost of feed and fertilisers and the pressure from supermarkets to buy from them at prices which barely cover the cost of production, let alone make them any profit are putting them in a position where they can't make a reasonable living. And making farming unattractive to the next generation.

We may want farming to continue in the 'old' way, but, as consumers, we're not prepared to pay the true cost of our food. Not only that, but we have a significant number of our populace who can barely afford food at the price it is now.

Where do feed and fertilisers come from, I wonder?

GrannyGravy13

Wyllow3 I for one am definitely not happy with the thought of more conglomerates buying up smaller farms.

What will be left of the so called British way of life for our GC and GGC?

I'm sorry, GG13, but our 'British way of life' is subject to continual change and has been ever since at least the Industrial Revolution.

Dou your GC and GGC want to be farmers? Or are you just wanting them to be able to experience a romanticised experience of 'farms'?

I'm old enough to remember stooks of corn in the fields at harvest time. And little herds of cows with horns grazing small files with interesting hedgerows. Even some people still using horses around the farm. Also lorry loads of women going off fruit picking in the local orchards, and potato picking later in the season.

Most picturesque.

All gone.

I remember being served by shop assistants and having bustling high streets, too. Now we self scan in the supermarkets and buy everything on line.

We don't live in a museum...

There are very few “conglomerate” farmers outside intensive pigs and poultry, most large arable producers are family farms that have taken over neighbouring farms to spread their overheads, usually they pay the owner a share of the profit from the crop quite often there is a loss.

'grazing small files'? fields

All very relevant, Maisie as these are the realities.

What really strikes me reading the posts from different POV is how badly government after government (or all shades) has failed to really discuss farming and food need and policy for a very long time. We've tinkered "round the edges".

The report from the Netherlands I posted up thread is a massive (not to say tedious at times) report and the good stuff like cash support for new small farmers, weather insurance, earth friendly non proactive crops and so on - loads of other stuff -

- its not necessary to read it all except to see just how much concern and discussion has been poured into farming and food concerns by their government compared to the UK.