The Farmers Fight

ronib

Iam64 I am proud of my peasant farmer ancestors . It’s all a case of perception.

Peasant may actually have been landowners.

Many or even most people had Ag. Labs. in their ancestry.

Iam64 I am proud of my peasant farmer ancestors . It’s all a case of perception.

MaizieD

ronib

Casdon it sure feels feudal …..

How does it feel 'feudal'?

The nearest we've got to 'feudal', and even that's a million miles away, is tenant farmers and no-one is the least bit concerned about them...

Feudal? peasant farmers ?!

Elijah who runs the farm I’m most familiar with runs sheep and cattle on his moorland. He doesn’t drive a Ferrari he drives an ancient Land Rover. He has working sheep dogs,
I suspect he’d be well pi***d off to be called a peasant

MaizieD oh yes I did a first year module in economics and it was completely incomprehensible.
We honestly don’t have a clue as to what Labour will or won’t change in the next four and a half years. The manifesto did not mention the changes to inheritance tax on small farmers for example. Labour really does have absolute power.

What are you talking about? Labour has no interest in change ?

Oh, FGS, stop taking things out of context. My actual words were " In the UK under the current economic regime, which Labour has no apparent interest in changing,"

If you'd done a first year module in economics you might have an inkling of what I am talking about.

Feudal society - first year undergraduate module- Bloch sticks in my subconscious MaizieD. But it was a very long time ago.
What are you talking about? Labour has no interest in change ? I thought that was their core doctrine. They just forgot to tell us before the election was won.
The petition now stands at over 1.5 million - well it’s a nice idea but going nowhere.

ronib

Casdon it sure feels feudal …..

How does it feel 'feudal'?

The nearest we've got to 'feudal', and even that's a million miles away, is tenant farmers and no-one is the least bit concerned about them...

ronib

Family farms will be sold and the small peasant farmer will be no more.

That's still not communism, ronib, that's reality in the economic regime we currently live under.

Under communism all property was taken over by the state. In the UK under the current economic regime, which Labour has no apparent interest in changing, the 'peasant farms', as you so charmingly call them, will be purchased by very wealthy people either to enjoy being 'landed gentry' or to farm intensively so as to make a profit. That is naked capitalism.

I expect they'll still buy it because halfbaked ITH, at half the normal rate and with 10 years to pay it, instead of the usual 6 months, might still look like quite an attractive tax dodge.

I'm curious to know what 'history you actually studied, because you certainly have a very strange idea of what constitutes 'communism.

Casdon it sure feels feudal …..

Allira

Casdon

Should I bow to your superior knowledge about communism Allira?

I'll ignore your goading.

Up to you, I’m happy to have a detailed discussion about what constitutes a communist country if you want to. It wasn’t me who swore however.

Smallholders would be nearer to peasant farmers than farmers with a small acreage, but neither bear any real resemblance because we don’t have a feudal society?
Small farmers will not be paying 20% on inheritance taxes either, because their farms don’t qualify.

Casdon

Should I bow to your superior knowledge about communism Allira?

I'll ignore your goading.

Casdon I think that small acreage farmers are roughly equivalent to peasant farmers in feudal times. Certainly now that 20 percent will go on inheritance taxes.

Should I bow to your superior knowledge about communism Allira?

Iam64

This government is a million miles from communism. MaizieD’s response, questioning whether socialism can be applied is reasonable (even though I’m a supporter if this govt)

No, it's not communist in its leanings.

Jeremy Corbyn was nearer to the ethos than this Government.

Me too ronib. There are no peasants in the UK, it’s a feudal term.

Casdon

Because you put a spin on it Allira.

‘communism, political and economic doctrine that aims to replace private property and a profit-based economy with public ownership and communal control of at least the major means of production and the natural resources of a society.’
27 Oct 2024
www.britannica.com
That is how communist countries operate, the model of leadership is what causes conflict.

Bollox.

Casdon peasant farming in my family for generations as for much of the population. Also have studied history.

That’s made me smile ronib, as peasant farmers predate the Industrial Revolution. I’m impressed that you know 300 year old farmers.

Wyllow3

David49

Wyllow3

Its just that I haven't seen any evidence David that the last or indeed this government has argued that its good to import food as its "greener" and that they are "greenwashing" in this way.

It probably isn’t “greener” that’s just your interpretation but if it’s not produced in the UK the emissions don’t count towards the UK climate target

A cow in Argentina or Ireland produces the same emissions as a UK cow, more imports less emissions for UK. That’s true of all imports don’t you understand that.

Yes I understand that of course but not the claim that governments have advised us to buy or supported food imports or made food policy for those reasons or even counted them in or out (factoring in air or other transport miles).

They havn’t mentioned the climate target benefits of importing so many other things from cars to cuddly toys either.

Greenwashing is rife everywhere it’s a big con, companies are simply buying carbon credits, passing the cost onto consumers and carrying on as before, Tesla make its profit by selling carbon credits to other manufacturers, said to be £1000 per car

I’m a long way from being convinced that the UK population is serious about climate change they just pay the climate taxes and carry on as before.

Family farms will be sold and the small peasant farmer will be no more.

Goodness, we certainly don't have anything like communism is the UK and with regard to farming, it's the total opposite. You could make a strong argument that under the Conservative govt, farmers were left to sink or swim with a greater emphasis on a capitalist ownership of land. As it stands most of the land in the UK is owned by 1% of the population! Communism tended strongly towards ownership of the land by the people, farmed collectively and controlled by the government, which is a million miles away from what we have in the UK.

Casdon more fool them.

ronib

Casdon go and chat to anyone with links to the farming community for a reality check.

ronib what are you talking about? I live in a farming community for goodness sake, and believe me, I’ve never met a single farmer who thinks like you do, even the most Tory ones do have a good understanding of the government policies and how they will be impacted by them - and none of them think we are turning into a communist state.

David49

Wyllow3

Its just that I haven't seen any evidence David that the last or indeed this government has argued that its good to import food as its "greener" and that they are "greenwashing" in this way.

It probably isn’t “greener” that’s just your interpretation but if it’s not produced in the UK the emissions don’t count towards the UK climate target

A cow in Argentina or Ireland produces the same emissions as a UK cow, more imports less emissions for UK. That’s true of all imports don’t you understand that.

Yes I understand that of course but not the claim that governments have advised us to buy or supported food imports or made food policy for those reasons or even counted them in or out (factoring in air or other transport miles).