The Farmers Fight

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Possibly some of it was due to payments from the EU for ‘set aside’. Daft idea really surely to let fields lie fallow or with wildflowers? The French can now sell US their produce instead? Win win for them? Short termism for the UK. We ought to produce as much as possible to feed ourselves? Plus keep the carbon footprint down?

We ought to produce as much as possible to feed ourselves? Plus keep the carbon footprint down?

I agree

We do, however, need to help and encourage farmers in their efforts to preserve and increase biodiversity and wildlife which in turn helps them and all of us.
Intensive farming methods are not good for the future of the planet.

Farmers need help, not punishment.
Any sensible Government concerned about food production should realise this.

I'm beginning to think that Rachel Reeves is quite clueless with no foresight whatsoever. Looking for immediate gain without thought for the future in this and other areas.

Whole thing a disgrace, Labour should be ashamed

Allsorts why should Labour ‘be ashamed’ because supermarkets don’t pay farmers a decent price for their produce?

Isn’t this the capitalist, free trade, market driven system so loved by the Conservatives?

There’s reference to ‘the class war’ being visible on this thread by a poster expressing anger towards the government. Interesting - my thought on reading this thread was how clear the right leaning posters desire to support the status quo is.

Iam64

There’s reference to ‘the class war’ being visible on this thread by a poster expressing anger towards the government. Interesting - my thought on reading this thread was how clear the right leaning posters desire to support the status quo is.

a poster Do you mean me?
Anger?

It was a reasonable post.

No I think it was maddy - someone I often agree with but on this occasion it seems we take slightly different views. I’m a bit conflicted about the small farmers. I’d like to see a forensic discussion rather than polarised shouting but hey ho

Iam64

No I think it was maddy - someone I often agree with but on this occasion it seems we take slightly different views. I’m a bit conflicted about the small farmers. I’d like to see a forensic discussion rather than polarised shouting but hey ho

I don't think it's easy to compare farming with any other business or occupation.

madalene

Good posts GrannyGravy.
I’m unfortunately not surprised by some posts in this thread that show class war fare in all its horrible glory. The farmers provide our food. We already import far more food than we should if we wish genuinely to cut carbon emissions. Locally produced food produced fewer carbon emissions.

But don’t forget, when Starmer told us all he didn’t want to tell people how to live their lives last week, he also said that we’ve got to eat less meat and less dairy food in the future. I eat very little meat (I do eat some) but I eat a lot of dairy produce - yoghurt, cheese, milk, etc. I also eat eggs, which were categorised as dairy (although they’re not) when I did my Domestic Science O Level. I also eat and use quite a lot of eggs. So Starmer doesn’t want to tell us how to live our lives but says eat less meat and less dairy. The consequence of that of course, is fewer farms necessary.

The consequence of that of course, is fewer farms necessary
Another consequence of that is more imported soy requiring large swathes of land being defrosted, resulting in more CO2 being released into the atmosphere.

And the result of that?

It sounds like another ill-thought out idea.
This is really quite worrying.

Not ^defrosted^ of course.
Thanks autocorrect.

Deforested

Why not, Allira
I don't quite understand.

However, I thought Iam64 was referring to a debate on farming/small farms and the status quo?

Yes I agree - I’ve heard comparisons made between farming and steel work for example. We have lost so much of our manufacturing industries, it destroys communities. My area was king cotton, we had great engineering and manufacturing industries with mining 4 miles away. Now we have mass unemployment along with its friends, drug/alcohol abuse and mental health problems.
Our area is more sheep and some cattle than growing land. I know how hard our farmers work, ever day in every weather. I see how they’ve diversified. I’m grateful they are the carers of our countryside.
I’ve read only 200 of the wealthiest land owners per year will be affected. One positive may be limiting non farmers buying land to avoid tax. Farmers will pay 20% inheritance tax above the new £1m threshold when inherited by the next generation. That’s half the standard IT others pay. In effect many farming families can pass up to £3m tax free to their children if the farm is owned by a married couple. Onky the wealthiest landowners will be affected

I agree Iam regarding the ‘class war’ element to this discussion. Those holding the wealth (and therefore the power) wishing to maintain that position.

Reminds me of the Aneurin Bevan comment:

“How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics in the 20th century”

Sorry xx posting as I took a while to respond. I have an emotional connection to farming/animals/land. I had a similar emotional connection to the miners as their lives and communities were destroyed. The consequences of that are evident in former mining areas.

We are only a few months away from the Conservatives being kicked out after they worked so hard to destroy so much. The anger directed at any attempt to recycle wealth shouldnt shock, Bevan’s comment is so relevant today

I was at the dentist this morning, and two local farmers were there having a good chat about it in the waiting room. What they said bears out your post Iam64- they weren’t bothered on a personal level, but they said it would be fun to watch from the sidelines.

I get on well with my neighbour, despite our different politics. She was so cross about the changes to ITax and farming. She told me with a smile that her farmer relative plans to sell the farm now rather than leave it to his sons. He wants to avoid ITax. She said he celebrated this decision by buying himself a new Ferrari.
This is a true story

There is no point.

This has been a really interesting discussion. Just to add that
if farmers leave an inheritance that will attract IHT their children will have 10 years to pay the required amount. Non-farming families have to pay IHT within 6 months I believe.

My son-in-law is a farmer. His dad has just about given up any farm work now so SIL is running a 300 acre arable farm by himself. That’s why he earns just above minimum wage and often his children don’t see him from Mon-Fri because he’s at work constantly (his parents live in the farm house, he and my dd live elsewhere). They never have a summer holiday because he can’t take time off work then. It’s true that he knew that those were the T&C’s when he decided to return home to help his dad run the farm but the same can be said for other lines of work but conditions have been improved, rightly so.

I really don’t know how farmers can have low living costs - my dd & sil pay the same for their food as anyone else, the children’s nursery fees are the same cost, they pay Council Tax and utilities bills just like everyone else. As for Range Rovers, don’t make me laugh. The farm has three or four cars. My SIL drives the newest - a 2017-reg Ford Focus.

I also don’t understand how that BBC article arrives at the value of farms. Does farm equipment not count towards assets? A combine harvester alone costs upwards of £750k! My sil has managed to share that cost of that with another farm and of course, it’s bought with finance because most farmers don’t have a cool three quarters of a million in the piggy bank.

My little GS wants to farm, too, but maybe the best he’ll achieve will be as a hired hand on a conglomerate farm. Those farms won’t care about the countryside, they’ll just want to screw the most out of the land and as others have said, sell it for solar farms and housing.

Why is holding up traffic, causing a public nuisance, dumping cow-shit in Downing Street something to applaud?

I don't know?

SueDonim

You won't convince some on here.

My DGS doesn't want to farm, thank goodness; he has probably seen the toll the work and stress takes on his parents.

All those farmers pleading poverty with their £3million land- how many are there? If it’s so unprofitable they should sell the land and live off the £3 million. The really poor farmers are those who rent their land - IHT will not affect them. The farmers near my sister in Norfolk all seem to have large cars, their kids have ponies and go to private school - oh and now they have to pay more school fees. No I don’t feel sorry for them. I do feel sorry for the really har£ up group having to rent their land from tax dodging landowners.

Jeanathome

*Why is holding up traffic, causing a public nuisance, dumping cow-shit in Downing Street something to applaud?*

I don't know?

Because it would show that farmers are passionate, and proud about farming and food production. They don't want to see the sector destroyed for future generations.

No one was really encouraging the actual dumping of cow shit in Downing Street, though it's an image that would undoubtedly get a lot of public support!

vegansrock

All those farmers pleading poverty with their £3million land- how many are there? If it’s so unprofitable they should sell the land and live off the £3 million. The really poor farmers are those who rent their land - IHT will not affect them. The farmers near my sister in Norfolk all seem to have large cars, their kids have ponies and go to private school - oh and now they have to pay more school fees. No I don’t feel sorry for them. I do feel sorry for the really har£ up group having to rent their land from tax dodging landowners.

Oh dear!

Oh dear what?

Other groups who protest are despised for preventing ambulances from getting through or causing violence.

Such bitter and twisted posts from vegansrock