The Farmers Fight

merlotgran

Such bitter and twisted posts from vegansrock

I've tried to point out the problems with soy production.

No point.
In fact, is there any point to GN at all?

A load of people arguing online? Really, what a waste of time it all is.

NotSpaghetti

Terribull - lots of these people have acquired land precisely because of the previous 0% tax!

Exactly !
All fami.y farmers need to do is pass the farm on in good time to their would-be heirs.

Agricultural land is overpriced because it has been bought by wealthy people to avoid IHT. Locally an acre of pretty poor land has been selling for between 10-12.5K, it's only suitable for grazing so if you look at the what is generated for grazing store cattle, sheep etc it's obvious that you'd be better putting your money in the bank because it's a pittance. If by taking the IHT benefit out of land ownership it brings land prices back to a sensible level it will do two things. Firstly it will mean proper farmers will be able to afford land ATM they are priced out by speculators or people wanting to pass on wealth without incurring IHT, secondly the value of their farms will come within the limits of the new IHT rules. Farmers who genuinely wish to pass their farms on to their children to continue farming won't mind at all as they never realise the value of land ownership. Farmers without heirs wishing to take on their land will be less pleased but they'll still be paying a lot less IHT than the rest of the population. I own some land, actually in the process of selling some to a local farmer who wants to take advantage of one of the new land stewardship grants and I have a patch of land that would suit him nicely. If we agree on a price I will pay CGT at 40% but I don't mind paying taxes.

I only realised from above post, those having to pay have 10 years interest free to pay.

I agree above that relief is needed for a small number, but frankly, most landowners will be paying 20% instead of 40% IT and it still makes it a good place to park investment money.

Another issue we've also discussed above is the idea "it will all go on solar farms and houses" Myth.

Yes, some land will go to housing, but we've already looked upthread at the fact most farms are bought up by larger food-producing units/farming conglomerates and continue to produce food.

Militant French farmers are offering to show their British counterparts how it’s done as they take to the streets over the Government’s inheritance tax raid.

French farmers have dumped manure and blocked roads in their latest round of protests this week, this time against the Mercosur trade deal between the EU and South American countries.

Serge Bousquet-Chassagne, the head of the militant Coordination Rurale union in the southwestern Lot-et-Garonne region, said he was happy to offer tips to British farmers.

“I’m prepared to receive my British farmer colleagues or to travel over there to lend a hand,” he said. “We have a lot of form when it comes to more radical forms of protest. We’re all in the same boat.”

I wonder if they realise how different the culture is in France? I watched this yesterday, and I found it an eye opener to understand the differences. It’s very accessible, a lady our age explains how it works there and what they do to mitigate the effects of strikes.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y43_K759D6I

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Possibly some of it was due to payments from the EU for ‘set aside’. Daft idea really surely to let fields lie fallow or with wildflowers? The French can now sell US their produce instead? Win win for them? Short termism for the UK. We ought to produce as much as possible to feed ourselves? Plus keep the carbon footprint down?

Don't be silly. Set Aside applied to all farms across the EU. The idea was to prevent over production.

MaizieD

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Possibly some of it was due to payments from the EU for ‘set aside’. Daft idea really surely to let fields lie fallow or with wildflowers? The French can now sell US their produce instead? Win win for them? Short termism for the UK. We ought to produce as much as possible to feed ourselves? Plus keep the carbon footprint down?

Don't be silly. Set Aside applied to all farms across the EU. The idea was to prevent over production.

We ought to produce as much as possible to feed ourselves

Yes, of course, but we aren't going to lose production if small farms sell out to larger units "landlords" who continue to farm the land.

Allira

merlotgran

Such bitter and twisted posts from vegansrock

I've tried to point out the problems with soy production.

No point.
In fact, is there any point to GN at all?

A load of people arguing online? Really, what a waste of time it all is.

Allira there are none so blind as those who will not see. Sadly that happens a lot on news and politics on GN which is why so many don’t post on that forum.There are lots of other forums to post on which you may find have more point.

Thanks 🙂

It's all quite depressing at the moment.

Allira

merlotgran

Such bitter and twisted posts from vegansrock

I've tried to point out the problems with soy production.

No point.
In fact, is there any point to GN at all?

A load of people arguing online? Really, what a waste of time it all is.

When did vr talk of soy production? I've been back to p2 and can't find it. Was it on p1?

Some call it arguing, some call it debating. I think it's useful to try to clarify ones own thinking. It's interesting, if sometimes maddening, to see how other people think, too.

I’m not bitter and twisted - pointing out that changes will affect a small number of wealthy farms - some of whom buy land in order to dodge tax. Needs pointing out. I’m not sure what soy production has to do with it - you do know of course that most of the soy grown in deforested areas is grown to feed animals who are reared in horrible industrial complexes. I’m on the side of really small farmers who won’t be affected by IHT and who are badly treated by big landlords. We all know the really wealthy don’t pay IHT - why doesn’t King Charles or The Duke of Westminster pay IHT?

Is the farmers protest about the proposed Inheritance Tax? Or is it all about "farmer" Jeremy Clarkson? He seems to have gained an awful lot of publicity out of it.
When did the NFU appoint him the Patron Saint of all things farming?

mae13

Is the farmers protest about the proposed Inheritance Tax? Or is it all about "farmer" Jeremy Clarkson? He seems to have gained an awful lot of publicity out of it.
When did the NFU appoint him the Patron Saint of all things farming?

Jeremy Clarkson is using his high public profile to highlight the farmers plight.

Todd on him 👏👏👏

Oops Good not Todd 🤷‍♀️

mae13

Is the farmers protest about the proposed Inheritance Tax? Or is it all about "farmer" Jeremy Clarkson? He seems to have gained an awful lot of publicity out of it.
When did the NFU appoint him the Patron Saint of all things farming?

When his voice spoke up for them. Good on him.

Casdon

I wonder if they realise how different the culture is in France? I watched this yesterday, and I found it an eye opener to understand the differences. It’s very accessible, a lady our age explains how it works there and what they do to mitigate the effects of strikes.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y43_K759D6I

Interesting, thanks, Casdon but very superficial. The lady I mean, not you! She's really just talking about her shopping habits in her very limited experience of France.
She's one of many Brits I know who moved to the middle of nowhere in Brittany and aren't really living the life most French people do.
There was no real, in-depth discussion about French farmers' protests - how they get their message across, how the government responds to the pressure, how French farmers attack property, how the use their animals (sometimes cruelly) as part of the protest, how destruction of products is symbolic of the ruin of the farming industry, how farmers are powerful for historical reasons etc etc.

The quote from FGT's French farming representative says it well, We have a lot of form when it comes to more radical forms of protest.

It wasn’t meant as a political analysis in any way escaped, but what I thought was interesting was her layman’s analysis about the way the French rally around ‘the workers’, the attitude of the public to strikes, and some of the actions that have been taken to enforce their protests. That is a very different culture to the UK, where there isn’t the same workers/government divide, it’s a lot more grey. I don’t get the sense that the public will rally behind our farmers in the way they would like them to, and I wondered if the French farmers realise that the way they protest may not translate effectively. We shall see.

I don’t get the sense that the public will rally behind our farmers in the way they would like them to
And that would be a great shame because this really affects every one of them.
I can understand the public not getting behind a 20% increase on school fees, (since one bitter poster had to slip that in here), because it affects so few. In the case of farmers, however, there is no alternative, there's very little option for them.
It will be interesting to see as it gathers momentum.

Allira

merlotgran

Such bitter and twisted posts from vegansrock

I've tried to point out the problems with soy production.

No point.
In fact, is there any point to GN at all?

A load of people arguing online? Really, what a waste of time it all is.

It's clearly firing some people's serotonin levels up though?

Baiting people with their love of Clarkson, Trump, Farage and so on.

All cut from the same self serving, racist, cloth.

If Just Stop Oil are against excessive food miles then they should be protesting alongside the farmers…

keepingquiet

I find this whole thing a bit puzzling to be honest.

Why is holding up traffic, causing a public nuisance, dumping cow-shit in Downing Street something to applaud?

We seem to have turned the tables here.

Striking, when doctors do it it's bad- but when farmers threaten to do it that's good?

I don't know much about inheritance tax because I won't ever have to pay it, no one I know has paid it, and my children won't have to pay it either.

Isn't this tax only paid when someone actually dies? It isn't taken from them at source on a regular basis as was the income tax I paid all my fifty years of working life, or is it? Would someone explain when these farmers will have to pay this tax?

I understand the farmers will have to hold over £3 million worth of assets? I find it difficult to feel sorry for someone with that much wealth to be honest.

I heard a farmer recently comparing themselves to the miners, which as someone whose family had been mining for over six generations, was quite frankly insulting. I think if you added up the total wealth my family made from mining for hundreds of years it wouldn't come near £3 million.

Of course we need the food, of course farmers work hard and deserve recognition- but some can't see the problems they face are no more than a little of a consequence of Brexit?

Project Fear has come home to roost and those who said we just had to face a little hardship are now having to deal with that 'hardship'.

Of course not all farmers voted for Brexit- they weren't listened to and now they are havng to deal with the reality like the rest of us.

Well said keepingquiet. A previous poster was aghast that the police might arrest farmers at the demonstration and I was about to cite their treatment of the miners. I remember the bloody scenes and the accepted rhetoric that miners were scum and somehow deserved it. It still makes me angry.

Farmers have always moaned and complained and considered themselves to be a special case. And yes, they did vote in their droves for Brexit despite the advice of their own union!

flappergirl regarding your last paragraph, you do realise that food doesn’t miraculously appear in supermarkets ready wrapped?

As the world is focused on reducing climate change, reducing food miles should be high on the agenda.

The UK is not food secure the Government should be helping and encouraging farmers not penalising them!

Come off it - it's Jeremy Clarkson first, second, last and all stops in between.

So how many, many generations of Clarksons have been continously toiling on the land?

mae13

Come off it - it's Jeremy Clarkson first, second, last and all stops in between.

So how many, many generations of Clarksons have been continously toiling on the land?

He has never claimed to be a multi generational farmer