At last! A Labour policy that makes sense.

Looked into spiking as it raised my interest:

Spiking is already illegal, but the commitment is to making it a specific offence. According to information published by the Metropolitan Police, spiking offences are covered by more than one law, but most come under the Offences Against the Person Act 1861

More on Starmers proposals in rest of the article

uk.news.yahoo.com/keir-starmer-reiterates-plans-spiking-090537478.html

eazybee

Good luck to the employers who will be tasked with getting these young people to work and stay in it. It will take a long time for them to realise there will be no wages without work, and no benefits forthcoming. They will employ all the strategies they know to make themselves unemployable. Very easy to disrupt a work place if you don't want to be there.

I wish Starmer well trying to stop the widespread avoiding work that I know happens, one of the main issues is that most are drug users and unemployable. The rest are earning whatever living they can get in the black economy.

Nonnato2

Skydancer

What I don’t understand is how can anyone just decide not to work and claim benefits? Can someone please explain?

Yes, I was thinking the same - how?

It wasn’t recent, but I knew someone whose two children did exactly this. How they got away with for so long I never could understand.

One of them insisted that she only wanted a particular ‘niche’ type of work, for which she wasn’t even qualified.

The other used to say e.g. a) that there weren’t any jobs, the Poles had taken them all, (not that he ever applied for any),

b) that he wasn’t going to work for minimum wage (despite having no qualifications or track record, and c), perhaps his ‘best, ’I’m not participating in the capitalist system!’

Despite, of course, being entirely happy to accept benefits funded by those who did.

Of course those who can work should be in a job, apprenticeship or training but there have to be jobs, etc., for them to take up. Given the employers' NI increase, lower NI threshold and NM wage increase not to mention less trade I wonder if it will work out. 'On yer bike' isn't always possible if housing is unavailable where jobs are.

petal53

I can’t see how one million youngsters aged between 16 and 24 are too unfit to go to work, or be in education. It’s the most healthy and energetic time of life for the majority of people.

Anyway I thought the last government had said that everyone between 16 and 19 (I think those were the ages) had to be in either education or work. I think they called them NEETS.Not in education or employment, but I’m not sure what the T and S stood for. Anyway if there are still one million of them not doing anything, obviously that scheme didn’t work.

Will this one work do you think?

The T stands for training- the S is just a plural so shouldn't be capitalised!

I think Covid is partly to blame- especially the way young people were left to their own devices during the exam season.

I know it was a terrible mistake and wrote to my MP to say so- those 16 year old who didn't take GCSEs are now 20 years old and suffering from those,short sighted decisions.

They were given the message they didn't matter so I hope this policy works shows them they do.

I also have a family member who has some health problems and has ignored all the advice he has been given. He hasn't worked for years. His wife works part time because she knows full time work will make her less well off.

The pair of them are very good at knowing exactly how to access every benefit available and I find it disgusting.

This is a Labour Minister continuing what other Governments started. Obviously the schemes have not succeeded.

M0nica is right when she says
Many of these children come from families and communities with no history of anything but unemployment so these young people have known nothing else.

However, it worries me what jobs will be available as the CBI predicts many job losses so even more people could be out of work.

The Government and industry need to work together to improve training and prospects for young people to have a future both in the public and private sector.

GrannyGravy13

I am amazed that the PM doesn’t realise this is already on statute books, before he has been on his promotional interviews today.

Yes, that puzzled me too when I heard about it - a major news item.
What is new about this proposal?

Allira

GrannyGravy13

I am amazed that the PM doesn’t realise this is already on statute books, before he has been on his promotional interviews today.

Yes, that puzzled me too when I heard about it - a major news item.
What is new about this proposal?

I think it's more to do with where it is on the statute books now. It's buried inside some more broad brush legislation, I understand. Government wants to make it more explicit.

Very, very uphill work to change a whole number of factors involved here. Not surprising the last movement didn't try and really grasp the nettle.

I hope people will realise how tough the process is and don't start grumbling "Its the Labour Government" if changes are slow and small!

MaizieD

Allira

GrannyGravy13

I am amazed that the PM doesn’t realise this is already on statute books, before he has been on his promotional interviews today.

Yes, that puzzled me too when I heard about it - a major news item.
What is new about this proposal?

I think it's more to do with where it is on the statute books now. It's buried inside some more broad brush legislation, I understand. Government wants to make it more explicit.

I answered this upthread

Spiking is already illegal, but the commitment is to making it a specific offence. According to information published by the Metropolitan Police, spiking offences are covered by more than one law, but most come under the Offences Against the Person Act 1861

More on Starmers proposals in detail rest of this article

uk.news.yahoo.com/keir-starmer-reiterates-plans-spiking-090537478.html

MaizieD

Allira

GrannyGravy13

I am amazed that the PM doesn’t realise this is already on statute books, before he has been on his promotional interviews today.

Yes, that puzzled me too when I heard about it - a major news item.
What is new about this proposal?

I think it's more to do with where it is on the statute books now. It's buried inside some more broad brush legislation, I understand. Government wants to make it more explicit.

Good.

My granddaughter left school at 16 wanting an apprenticeship. Mum helped with her CV and interview practice. She applied to several including Ernst and Young. She was offered and took this. The company had advertised the training as being well mentored, excellent facilities and benefits in the work place. It transpired that everything she had to do was at home and isolated. So not as advertised. She persevered but after a month or so it was not working for her. She tried with Mum’s help to renegotiate so she was able to go to work in office. They said no so with regret she gave her notice. She continued to apply and in no time was offered an apprenticeship by Hargreaves’s Langsdown. Unfortunately, the provider and employer did not have the correct paperwork for a 16 year old, so she couldn’t start.
At the time she was working in fast food pizza house as a kitchen porter so continued the job. She became very demotivated about getting an apprenticeship but couldn’t find any college courses until the following September. All this while her Mum and her were looking out for more apprenticeships.
Finally in May she was offered a project management placement. She found it hard going initially, office work plus college work, day release.
A year on she’s flying! She has received two pay rises and earns nearly twice my pension income! She has been told by her company that a project management degree will be open for her when she completes her college courses.

The point I’m making is that her journey has not been easy and without her Mum’s encouragement and support she may very well have become a casualty of the system.

Where is the career advice and support? More young people need encouragement and immense support on leaving school. We have given our young people great expectations and social media doesn’t help!

Step dad was still irritated because they were supporting him, and apparently his father was giving him money, because benefits were quite low

Sounds more like enabling to me, petal53. His lifestyle choice is on us the taxpayer (benefits) and his long suffering parents. Another man/child.

Good for her and their perseverance, ayse

As far as I remember, Ernst and Young would take on graduates (not necessarily Maths graduates) for accountancy training.
Some accountancy firms will take on those with good Maths A levels and they can work as well as taking a degree plus take further examinations. However, the selection process is quite difficult to get through as there are far more applicants than places.

It's a pity there aren't far more schemes like this, not necessarily degree level but where young people can work and gain qualifications at the same time.

Allira

Good for her and their perseverance, ayse

As far as I remember, Ernst and Young would take on graduates (not necessarily Maths graduates) for accountancy training.
Some accountancy firms will take on those with good Maths A levels and they can work as well as taking a degree plus take further examinations. However, the selection process is quite difficult to get through as there are far more applicants than places.

It's a pity there aren't far more schemes like this, not necessarily degree level but where young people can work and gain qualifications at the same time.

Indeed, good for that young person (wow) and yes we really really need decent schemes for the young so badly

“Hard times create strong men,
strong men create good times,
good times create weak men
and weak men create hard times” ◀️ which I believe is the point we are at presently.

Wyllow3

..thought we were discussing the new benefit initiatives.

No, most posters are taking it as an opportunity to dismiss anything positive done by this government

ayse

My granddaughter left school at 16 wanting an apprenticeship. Mum helped with her CV and interview practice. She applied to several including Ernst and Young. She was offered and took this. The company had advertised the training as being well mentored, excellent facilities and benefits in the work place. It transpired that everything she had to do was at home and isolated. So not as advertised. She persevered but after a month or so it was not working for her. She tried with Mum’s help to renegotiate so she was able to go to work in office. They said no so with regret she gave her notice. She continued to apply and in no time was offered an apprenticeship by Hargreaves’s Langsdown. Unfortunately, the provider and employer did not have the correct paperwork for a 16 year old, so she couldn’t start.
At the time she was working in fast food pizza house as a kitchen porter so continued the job. She became very demotivated about getting an apprenticeship but couldn’t find any college courses until the following September. All this while her Mum and her were looking out for more apprenticeships.
Finally in May she was offered a project management placement. She found it hard going initially, office work plus college work, day release.
A year on she’s flying! She has received two pay rises and earns nearly twice my pension income! She has been told by her company that a project management degree will be open for her when she completes her college courses.

The point I’m making is that her journey has not been easy and without her Mum’s encouragement and support she may very well have become a casualty of the system.

Where is the career advice and support? More young people need encouragement and immense support on leaving school. We have given our young people great expectations and social media doesn’t help!

Well done on your DGD and her Mother's perseverance. This is the kind of situation that is being discussed; reaching those young people who do not have the family with the skills, motivation, patience to encourage their children. Some youngsters don't have this example, there is fear of the unknown, of an area of employment where there is no family experience etc. It has to be admitted though, that there are some, in all age groups who play the system, it was ever thus.

My friend works for a large company in his area which regularly advertises new vacancies which are directed at young people. He interviews streams of candidates, many of whom are sent from the job centre. They must attend a required number of interviews in order to keep their benefits.
Almost all of the candidates state that they have no interest in the job or indeed have any desire to work at all.
They obviously aren't employed by the company but have satisfied the requirements to continue claiming benefit.

Well I’m sick of paying tax to give to the bone idle.
(Those who CHOOSE not to work more than 16 hours a week in case it affects their benefits).
So many other countries are not as generous as us (even Macron chastises us for our benefit system) so why do we delusionally think we can afford this largesse?

I hope Starmer makes good headway with this but I’m sceptical. Tories couldn’t do it and the benefits brigade vote Labour. Anyway we will have to wait and see how things unfold.

By the end of this decade, the benefits ‘iceberg’ bill is forecast to be £100 billion a year. (Up from £60 billion now).

It’s madness and wrong on so many levels.

And how on earth the government thinks this Bill squares with the shocking hike in NI brought in by Reeves I have no idea. Companies insist they will reduce vacancies because of it.

It’s a perfect storm really. A clashing of ideas that do not complement one another which is why I doubt any meaningful headway will be made.

If my memory is working, I think Gordon Brown introduced tax credits and their availability to people working 16hours a week. The aim was to ensure no one was financially worse off because they were working. At the time I was concerned tax payers might be subsidising Asda/tesco etc to pay poor wages.

Allira

Good for her and their perseverance, ayse

As far as I remember, Ernst and Young would take on graduates (not necessarily Maths graduates) for accountancy training.
Some accountancy firms will take on those with good Maths A levels and they can work as well as taking a degree plus take further examinations. However, the selection process is quite difficult to get through as there are far more applicants than places.

It's a pity there aren't far more schemes like this, not necessarily degree level but where young people can work and gain qualifications at the same time.

Yes, she was up against graduates and A level entrants. She must have given a very good interview. I was proud of her.

I think more young people should be encouraged to take on part-time work. If that’s not possible work tasters/experience before end of GCSE year.

Many young people are not academic and find GCSE so challenging. We need an easier access to craft/skilled apprenticeships for young people wanting to join programmes with insufficient exam results. Almost a learning to work programme with employers and training working together.

More joined up writing!

I wish Starmer well but he needs to be a lot tougher than the previous successive governments, there is no reason why physically fit young people cannot do whatever work is offered.
Some find it easy to fit in with the adult world of work, others struggle to accept their lives change and you have to earn money to pay the rent.

FGTs, I don’t believe you’re right in believing it’s that group that vote Labour. My experience of people who know how to work the system is they don’t vote. They simply exploit the system.

‘Benefit cheats’ are small in number, the cost less than is lost with tax avoidance or so I’m told.

I hope the government can reduce the numbers of unemployed, especially yiung people. I agree with MOnica’s earlier post. All too often, these young people come from families where it’s been generations since anyone worked. They’ve usually been school avoiders, with parents who avoid taking responsibility. Then we have the huge problem of substance abuse. Addicts don’t make reliable employees.