Assisted dying bill passed.

Kalu I agree wholeheartedly with you, beautifully explained. I had a similar experience with my DH.
There will be many more discussions, parliamentary committees and votes etc. before it becomes legal.
Deepest condolences to you, they are never forgotten. Life is never the same.

It is not The Assisted Dying Bill, it is The Terminal Ill (Adults) End of Life Bill, which is not the same thing. I'm pleased it passed, I think many people will feel reassured that should the process of dying become too difficult for them, they have a way out. In practice I think many people will sign up fearful of the process of dying but not choose to take their own life, this has been the case in Canada and other countries. Certainly if I had a terminal diagnosis that I knew came with the potential to cause a distressing and painful death, I would consider it.

Whitewavemark2

I’m of the mind that I’m pleased people are being given the choice, but I feel very strongly that care and in particular palliative care should be top class before I would consider choice to be absolutely in a proper balance.

Upgrading Palliative care would be much more expensive than just requiring a vote to kill people off.
Based on my Mother’s wish not to die, but being placed on a pathway anyway I see this as a licence to kill.

Kalu, what happened with your DH is why, on balance, I am in favour of the start of a change to the legislation. I appreciate we all have our own views on this emotive subject though.

I’m with your late husband on this Kalu. My own darling man has Stage IV cancer and it is incurable. We are of course devastated but he is ‘well for now’. He too has an extremely high pain threshold and end of life care with inadequate palliative pain relief plays on his mind.

We sent a man to the moon more than 50 years ago and yet reassuring pain relief seems beyond the medics because of arbitrary constraints. Beyond tragic. No-one should have to suffer like that in this day and age. It’s cruel.

I am supportive. Have watched too many loved ones enduring, and I mean, enduring long drawn out impossible pain before the end. For those who say palliative care is the way , sorry, but no matter how "good" that may be it never alleviates the agony .
Horrendous to watch people you love so very much in such pain.

This bill only applies to people given a period of 6 months left to their lives. They also have to be capable of requesting the drug. What I don't understand is why so many people are conflating other issues, such as people who are disabled and/or incapable of making the decision.

Mollygo Because your Mother wishes for something else does not make this a licence to kill.

A young woman who has had cancer for 10 years was interviewed this morning and she is in favour of it. To look at her you would not know that she was ill. She is waiting for her next scan to check whether the meds have stopped working.

I have got mixed feelings about this issue as I know many people have.

Although I can absolutely see how dreadfully cruel it is for some terminally ill folk to have no way out at the present, I fear very much that, despite assurances to the contrary, it could be abused and extended to for instance, depressed people.

According to Senior Political Correspondent it was a 60/40 split - so not that close. Personally I am pleased and will get further discussion now. Listening to a few MPs who are doctors describe cancer eating through patients neck until they bleed out - well who would choose that end to life. DH stage 4 cancer isnt quite sure how he feels.

I'm glad MPs have voted for this

Severely depressed people find ways to take their own lives anyway

That was only one form of cancer- not all cancers. That a patient's life should get to that stage is intolerable but has nothing to do with this bill.

Many doctors also spoke about good end of life care preventing these horrible occurences.

I’m relieved the proposed bill has been allowed to go ahead so far. I expected this result. It’s very restricted, though - I’d like something a bit more general.

Been out all day taking my big brother for lunch for his 87th birthday. Like myaself and DH, we are all members of Exit, andif and when, will have the choice, and in our own home- without having to wait for the '6th month left' stage.

I am so pleased the Bill has passed to the next stage, so that our family and friends will have that choice, if and when.

Mollygrow, your last sentence 'Upgrading Palliative care would be much more expensive than just requiring a vote to kill people off' is so so unfair and, tbh, appalling. This bill is not and never will be, about 'killing people off'. I am so sorry to had to witness this with your mother- I witnessed the opposite with mine. She was a member of Exit, and because she knew she would have the choice if her loss of dignity and independence, combined with blindness, loss of her legs and sight, just got too much. Reassured by having that ultimate choice, she chose to live for a good 10 years- before turning to the wall and refusing food and drink.

Could you explain what ‘Exit’ is please Fleurpepper? Is is only available in certain countries - to be a member of?

It will be a long time before it is law.

Common sense at last!

As I said on the other thread about this, I used to be a supporter of assisted death, but as I’ve grown older (and maybe wiser?) I just feel uncomfortable with this. People can be coerced. As Dianne Abbot said in Parliament this morning, you cannot see coercion. Family or medics could coerce, and leave the patient feeling it would be better for everyone if they were dead. My daughter suffered coercive control in her marriage and I didn’t see the extent of it. How would anyone see the extent of coercion if used in the situation of assisted death?
I’m also concerned that the conditions will be widened over time, as has happened in other countries. Also will judges, doctors, and nurses be willing to take part in this? I don’t know if I could if I was a medic, or a judge.

Concerned about this decision, one made by a new parliament full of raw, inexperienced MPs.
Absolutely the wrong time to debate something so important.

Allsorts I agree with you.

eazybee

Concerned about this decision, one made by a new parliament full of raw, inexperienced MPs.
Absolutely the wrong time to debate something so important.

Eazybee that very thought crossed my mind too.

I for one am glad it has not been thrown out at this stage. It leaves room and time now for further review, research and debate, probably with some changes, before possibly becoming law. It is far from a done deal.

TopsyIrene06

Kalu I agree wholeheartedly with you, beautifully explained. I had a similar experience with my DH.
There will be many more discussions, parliamentary committees and votes etc. before it becomes legal.
Deepest condolences to you, they are never forgotten. Life is never the same.

Indeed TopsyIrene06 those horrific images of what my darling husband suffered are in my head daily.

As a former nurse, my work ethos was to preserve life however, watching how much my husband, not a patient this time, suffered, with me doing everything within my power to effectively care for my patients, it really hit home when I felt so helpless to do so much more for my patients and more so for my DH. The proof I needed that if he was given the option to end his life, I would be there for him until a peaceful end rather than witnessing his continual misery until the end.

Glad it got past. When my husband was dieing if he had asked I would have overdosed him. Our McMillan nurse had already total us the next higher dose of morphine would kill him . So I always knew how much to give if he wanted it . Thankfully he died not long after but he died in agnoy unable to breath even on full oxygen.

My dad hated what he became and I would have helped he died if he asked. Same with my mom before the dementia killed her and her body lived on.

I have already made my decision if I ever get dementia or Alzheimer's. Or going to die in agony I do not want my daughter to go through what I did . Or have the memories I have. We all have free will and our bodies belong to us.

As I mentioned above my Father died 40 years ago. I can still remember exactly how he looked and the experience of being in hospital with him during the week before he finally died.

He crosses my mind virtually every day, just briefly. It's more difficult to remember him, and my Mother as they were before ill health got them.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Could you explain what ‘Exit’ is please Fleurpepper? Is is only available in certain countries - to be a member of?

Apologies- Exit is the Swiss association for those, resident in Switzerland (not only Swiss) - who want to have the choice if and when. For approx £40 a year, you are a member, with courses, books, AGM, and phone advice/assistance. And if and when the time comes, you can ask for assistance. This will follow with a medical report, an interview by trained volunteer to ensure you full understand how it works and no coercion. If they are satisfied you fit all the criteria, a date will be set, and a place. Usually the person's own home, but could be in Care Home or Hospital. And on the chosen day, a second interview will take place to make sure the person is full aware and, again, no hesitation or coercion. The the potion is provided for the person to take, or the drip put up to be activated by the person. All is filmed- the evidence then given to the Police and Judge.

All for free, only the £40 subs for a year.

There are a couple of other associations, like LifeCircle or Pegasos, but Exit is the main one.

You have to be Swiss resident, however.