NOTRE DAME [title edited by GNHQ at OP's request]

escaped

Notre Dame in Paris belongs to the state, and the speed of the restoration was down to Macron's mobilisation of craftsmen. I believe trades like stone carving have seen a big increase in apprenticeships as a result of all the publicity. In France, most skilled trades are passed down in families through the generations, and there is a real sense of national pride. I'm sure we have similar experts who could do the job here, but we seem to lack the passion and commitment.

I remember when the tower of the cathedral at Bury St Edmunds was completed back in the noughties and there were many complaints about the use of public money. However, £2m was left to the cathedral by an architect who worked on in the latter part of the 20thC plus lottery money.

English stonemasons may well have worked on Notre Dame. I have read of other projects in France where they have been used.

Presumably Historic Environment Scotland (HES) cares for many historic sites in Scotland, the equivalent to English Heritage and Cadw. Do they get any grants from Governments or are they reliant on fundraising and the Lottery Fund?

As said, nothing in France like English Heritage or NT, and the French really admire the renovations done all other France by the British, with great taste- unlike many of the French renos with plastic doors and windows.
Yes, the French might admire the renovations done by the anglais on houses but my friend an estate agent there says they won't buy them for numerous reasons! 😆

Drogo Castle is a bit of a special case- privately and badly built, and not that old either.

As said, nothing in France like English Heritage or NT, and the French really admire the renovations done all other France by the British, with great taste- unlike many of the French renos with plastic doors and windows. Etc.

Greyduster

^so they tend to get the jobs done while we're still going through the processes^. What evidence have you for saying that?

Without boring the socks off everyone with my interest in historical buildings, my observations were based on the following example.
A château in Angers, western France, I visited this year, had 8 towers and the ramparts restored, plus the drainage and waterproofing etc. The guide told us a grant was given after covid, part of the France Relance project, and works were finished in just over 2 years.
I'm comparing that with the restoration of Drogo Castle near me here which has taken since 2006 to restore, on and off with stops and starts for various reasons.
The French do admire the work of our NT and English Heritage, but for me France wins hand down on architecture and artistry in their buildings. And of course, France's number is far greater in their much larger country with, for example, double the number of cathedrals, and over 40,000 châteaux.

It is totally possible to be proud of one's heritage, and yet question some aspects of it- and not be jingoistic.

One of the favourite French programme is about an English couple who restores Châteaux and Grand Houses, with great taste. The French also really admire the work of the National Trust and English Heritage, and say exactly the same about the English, but t'other way round, of how great we are at restoration and proud of our heritage. What nonsense Jberwork about 'having to apologise for heritage being there in the first place'! Any Heritage built on the slave trade is also put back into context in France and other places in the world.

It seems that there is an impasse at the moment, let's hope they resolve this and get on with the restoration asap.

The initial procurement process set up by the GSA had to be abandoned after a series of bungles meant that it tried to award first place to two different architects, leaving itself millions out of pocket and no closer to getting any work done. Since then, the school has been stuck in arbitration with its insurers, and while it has started a new procurement process, the commencement of any work seems a long way off.

www.apollo-magazine.com/glasgow-school-art-fire-rebuilding-saga/#:~:text=Mackintosh's%20building%20has%20been%20transformed,the%20remains%20to%20dry%20out.

Jaberwok

Surely we could be allowed to be quietly satisfied? but I think even this would be disapproved of.

Oreo It’s not in the British nature to proudly shout about anything British (mores the pity.)

Strange, isn't it.
We'd be accused of being jingoistic, whereas the French are patriotic.

I'm guessing quite a bit of our lottery money goes towards heritage projects, but we need to proudly shout about their provenance and history more in order to preserve what we have here before it is lost.
Yes, we should and the Lottery Heritage Fund is a good initiative.

so they tend to get the jobs done while we're still going through the processes. What evidence have you for saying that?

Surely we could be allowed to be quietly satisfied? but I think even this would be disapproved of.

It’s not in the British nature to proudly shout about anything British (mores the pity.)

Of course we have wonderful craftspeople perfectly able to restore our heritage, but at the same time we have to apologise for heritage being there in the first place.

That's getting close to how it is , Jaberwok.
France will always remain a proud nation. It's in their very French blood.
They're not daft, they know the state cannot afford to foot the bill for the maintenance of every French monument through public funds alone, so there's a move to join with private investors to preserve the French heritage for years to come.

I'm not sure British people are quite as keen, maybe they are, maybe they're not. The French are certainly more pragmatic. They recognise that reducing time frames is of importance in terms of generating tourist income too, so they tend to get the jobs done while we're still going through the processes. That's why the châteaux of the Loire are getting a new modern lease of life for future posterity, without destroying any of their past history and culture.

I'm guessing quite a bit of our lottery money goes towards heritage projects, but we need to proudly shout about their provenance and history more in order to preserve what we have here before it is lost.

Windsor Castle was beautifully done, but.I don't think it's P.C to feel proud of it!? Or any of our great buildings come to that.

Must say Notre Dame and other French Cathedral have always left me 'a bit cold'- too dark, too decorated. I've visited Notre Dame several times, and it never moved me. Looking forwards to visiting again next year, hopefully much lighter now.

Take me to York Minster, Peterborough, Ely, Lincoln, and many others in England, and the best for me Durham - and my heart soars, even though I am not at all religious.

Jaberwok

The French are still proud of their nation. We as a country are not. For years now we've had it dinned into us what an awful nation we are and that our past is something to be abjectly ashamed of to the point that we should be hanging out heads and constantly apologising , and regretting that we still exist. Of course we have wonderful craftspeople perfectly able to restore our heritage, but at the same time we have to apologise for heritage being there in the first place!

And not a little of the “dinning” has appeared on sites such as ours
Talking of restoration though, what about Windsor Castle?
Beautifully done.

Allira 👌

That is stunning Allira.. Are the gardens stunning and open during the growing season?

The French are still proud of their nation. We as a country are not. For years now we've had it dinned into us what an awful nation we are and that our past is something to be abjectly ashamed of to the point that we should be hanging out heads and constantly apologising , and regretting that we still exist. Of course we have wonderful craftspeople perfectly able to restore our heritage, but at the same time we have to apologise for heritage being there in the first place!

My goodness that’s amazing and what a lovely setting!

Yes, many people do have pride in their work in this country.

This is an example not of stone masonry, carpentry, stained glass windows but pride in making a beautiful garden then drying all the flowers. On my FB page this morning, a photograph of The Cotehele Garland, made each year from the flowers grown from seed at Cotehele House, dried and displayed in the Great Hall. Thirty thousand flowers, sixty feet in length, nineteen stone in weight:

No, Greyduster, no making points intended! Just pondering in my posts about that inherent sense of orgueil that our French friends have displayed over the centuries, and which manifests itself as an art form. Sometimes I look beyond just the basics.
But as you were .......

Ok. At this point, I give up trying to make a point🙄.

By passion, Greyduster, I think I meant that masonry isn't exactly a topic we British would sit and discuss round the dinner table! The French do, animatedly.
I was blown away by the tribute to Notre-Dame in the choreographed performance during the Olympic Games opening ceremony. We saw music and dance mixed with the sound of construction tools, all as a tribute to the amazing artisans and craftsmen involved in the restoration of the cathedral. It was lasting image of national pride for the whole world to admire, and uniquely French.

I would add that it costs around £30,000 per day to run and maintain York Minster, and no doubt our other major places of worship around the country have similar costs.