Waspi women cheated yet again!!

People should perhaps remember that this whole saga was started by the Tory Government of John Major. Cameron and co. were bound to continue with it as they were hellbent on "austerity".

So when you criticise the Labour Party, remember who introduced the equalisation of the pension age and how long they had in Government to plan for the impacts on women born in the 50's. They also left the economy in a dire mess, for example because of the millions of pounds of wasted taxpayers' money thrown at their friends who profited from a hurried procurement process providing useless protective clothing for the NHS during Covid.

The DWP hasn't covered itself in glory either but how would they find all the women affected, as I asked in another thread? Some of these women may not have been taxpayers with tax codes to be notified about every year or they had never claimed benefits in the past. Some may have even gone to live abroad.

Why didn't Sunak respond in march when The Ombudsman's report was published? Well, he didn't want to remind people of the things I have just pointed out and allowed his Chancellor in the Spring budget to dish out National Insurance cuts in a bid to persuade voters to vote Tory in the General Election he was already planning to call.

I hope that the Waspi womens campaign (and I am a Waspi woman) will think very carefully before proposing large amounts of compensation to all their members, some of whom did not lose anything like £10,000. Surely it won't be easy for people to prove that they never received a letter from the DWP, especially if they have moved home several times and haven't been in contact with any Government department since 1995.

Maggiemaybe

^The Ombudsman enquiry into Waspi claims started in 2018. - conveniently didn't report until after the "called early" GE. Food for thought there^.

The report was published in March, so before the election.

If it was published in March, why didnt Sunak respond? Saying nothing spoke volumes, didnt it? They had plenty of opportunity as pension matters were discussed - but instead called an early GE and put it all off.

I do agree about the "information" bit Rosie. Better to be upfront and say no government could have paid this out in current circs.
After all, the obvious muddle in information given and the long long time lag on any kind of action was entirely up to previous governments.

As regards "Well changing leaders on this point made no difference" - but it has on a whole raft of others.

I, too, am disappointed that we are not getting the compensation to which I believe we are entitled. I do, however, think that too much is being expected of this government in too short a time, given the situation it has inherited.

I also think it is not hypocritical to support something and also be unable to justify the cost of providing it.

What would have been a possible workaround might have been to stagger the payments, so we got, say, an extra 25% of the amount per year over the next four years.

You wouldn't recognise my definition, but think about it and you'll see how ridiculous it is to accuse people of being patronising (as one poster did) just because I knew something others didn't.
I'm not putting other people down either. I'm not going to pretend that I'm not interested in current affairs and that I read widely about contemporary issues, as do many others. I was accused of being a 'snob' for having some kind of advantage, which is baffling.

Some remarks do come across as intellectual snobbery, unfortunately, which is defined as looking down on others whom you see as not having the advantages of your intellect.

Other posters may chat about their holidays, their cruises etc but they are not putting you down because you say you cannot afford these things. They're just chatting about them

I realise Labour got in by default so to speak. But why anybody voted Labour is beyond me.

The Ombudsman enquiry into Waspi claims started in 2018. - conveniently didn't report until after the "called early" GE. Food for thought there.

The report was published in March, so before the election.

I do believe Starmer would have liked to pay out this claim but circumstances have changed so much. That's not what he's saying though is it, he's now claiming the vast majority knew so no need? I am so disappointed in him.

Wyllow3 do you believe Sunak have paid out the 10.5 billion pounds concerned?

Honest answer, no I don't. But are you indicating we are not to expect anything from Starmer that Sunak wouldn't have done? Why bother changing leaders if all we can expect is more of the same?

The previous government delayed Waspi claims and Post office worker claims for years and years.

Can I ask posters, do you believe Sunak have paid out the 10.5 billion pounds concerned?

The Ombudsman enquiry into Waspi claims started in 2018. - conveniently didn't report until after the "called early" GE. Food for thought there.

BTW it affected me and my sister.

Yes in 2019 Corbyn had a long shopping list of promises that were completely unrealistic and thats one of the reasons they stood no chance of election. People didn't believe they were realistic financially.

I do believe Starmer would have liked to pay out this claim but circumstances have changed so much.
Not an excuse
a reason.

Allira

Well, apparently, all that meant nothing because it wasn't in the manifesto.

How many people saw them with those placards, calling for justice and how many actually read their manifesto? They were on tv, in the media, looking for publicity.

Apparently, everyone should have realised all that meant nothing , as it wasn't in the manifesto.
It was all for show.

Sadly, yes it was all for show☹️

No nastiness involved, just the truth.Why assume that every woman would know of the changes, the Ombudsman ruled in the womens favour in any case.

What a nasty, personal post escaped.

I don't claim to have superior knowledge about most things, although I have never denied that I did know about the state pension increase in 1995 and again in 2011. I really did assume that everybody, especially those affected, would know. It was widely publicised in the media both times.

I have not put anybody down. Despite the personal attack claiming that I have some advantage, all I did was point out that I don't have any advantage - the only one being that I did have a great education. As you point out, others have had a great education, so it's not really much of an advantage. Logically, in that case, I have no advantages, but I expect I'd wait a long time for an apology.

I haven't attacked anybody for their lifestyle. That's in your imagination.

Fortunately, nastiness is like water off a duck's back to me. I'm not the one who has a problem.

I'm a Waspi woman. I am disappointed, more with this government's appalling behaviour than with the lack of compensation. Even the BBC reports last night were contrstucted in an equally exasperated manner.

However, away from that issue, this comment on the thread really puzzles me,

What would you call it when people on GN go on about holidays, meals out and buying stuff which I could never afford? Maybe you could tell them to shut up because it sometimes upsets me.

IF people talking about their holidays and purchases really upsets you this much, growstuff, why not politely express that you find their comments uncomfortable? Wouldn't that be preferable to attacking those posters for their lifestyle?
Nasty sneers upset these people too you know. They have done nothing wrong, and attacks do sound like envy.

Whilst I genuinely respect your superior knowledge, growstuff, and because it's Christmas, I would like to point out that, I, and many others on here, also received an excellent higher education, and in addition have extensive experience of the world. For my part, I would never deliberately put anyone down on GN, nor be discourteous, when discussing my own situation.

Come to think of it and my employer ran pre-retirement courses we were all eligible to go on shortly before we reached 60. I went on one. I do remember finances being covered - as in "How could they not?" - but I don't remember a thing being said to any of us of "There's a pension gap here - now what are you going to do about it?". From memory - that course I went on was far enough before I retired that I hadn't yet handed my notice in - so I could have heard about that stolen State Pension money for the first time on it (if they hadnt missed that fact out) and duly changed my mind about when to hand my notice in. Hmmm.....I guess that was part of their battery of stunts they pulled on people over the years to try to get a lot of us out (ie a "Don't give them the full facts" stunt).

Luckily, I had realised about 10 years before they announced our SPA would go up that they would pull that stunt and been planning accordingly and I cautiously left handing in my notice until the last possible moment - in case they pulled anything else at the last moment. I had realised I couldnt trust our employer as far as I could throw them - they were a past master at deliberate "inefficiency".

So - yet another missed chance to tell us...

Tenko

I’m a waspi born in 58 and I did know about the changes . I’m self employed and my accountant informed me. I have the letter . I also have a letter from dwp and read stuff in the financial pages and on tv .
Most of my friends and family members also knew of the changes .
But I can understand that women whose first language isn’t English would not be aware or women in low income jobs .

I'm English - but was in a low-income job - and it's just clicked to me from what you said that I was let down two ways over when it came to notifying me.

Reason being my employer had/has a variety of jobs - through from low-paid to reasonably-paid and it could be said my employer should have told us all (ie it was public sector - not private sector).

Absolutely certainly the union (which most of us belonged to) should have told us and there's definitely another question there that we should have an answer to - ie why a large union/functioning in the public sector never told its members about this. We were told other stuff to do with our income from that employer. We were told about about all the non-work related causes that were being supported. But not a peep about our future income.....

When I was coming up to 60 in 2014 ,I remember saying to my work partner I would be retiring soon, then someone said I dont think you are. So I looked it up and it said I can get my state pension when Im 66!!! So I had to work for another 6 years. I never got a letter neither did my sister who is 18months younger than me. So those who say they did know well they were lucky or not.
Kier Starmer is a liar. I do not believe in this black hole he uses as an excuse everytime he opens his mouth. I think being Prime Minister has totally gone to his head and that he and is goverment are heading for a fall. Its ok to upset citizens because we are old, but one day he is going to upset the wrong people .

Doodledog

growstuff

I wasn't being snippy. I meant what I wrote ie. "some people". As I was addressing your post, I would have written "you", if I had meant you.

I don't recognise your definition of snobbery.

If you honestly think I have advantages in my current life, I would like to invite you to live in my shoes for a few days. I do, incidentally, acknowledge that some people are not so aware of current affairs as I am and have been since I was a child, which is about the only 'advantage' I have.

Well equally, If I had been addressing you I would also have written 'you'.

I have no idea about any advantages you may have. I was referring to people who talk about women 'claiming' not to have known, and saying they 'can't believe' that people didn't know, followed by a story about how they found out.

Have you said you don't believe women who say they didn't know? And if you have, do you believe that those who have said they didn't are somehow trying to play the system? If so, what I said applies to you, but it wasn't intended to single you out, as it seems to be a fairly common belief. If not, then it doesn't apply.

And FWIW (nothing, probably), I don't recognise your definition of the politics of envy.

No, I haven't written that I don't believe them, although I think I've written that I find it baffling that people didn't know. I could very well have been one of your 'some people'.

You wouldn't recognise my definition, but think about it and you'll see how ridiculous it is to accuse people of being patronising (as one poster did) just because I knew something others didn't.

Allira

growstuff

Maybe criticising people with a good knowledge of current affairs is a form of the 'politics of envy'.

Doesn't upset me in the slightest nor is it anything to do with envy.

Posters who talk about things they do which you say in your post you cannot afford are not putting down others who cannot.

I'm not putting other people down either. I'm not going to pretend that I'm not interested in current affairs and that I read widely about contemporary issues, as do many others. I was accused of being a 'snob' for having some kind of advantage, which is baffling.

Actually, when I read about other people's lifestyles, I could feel quite 'put down' if I weren't the person I am, so there is an equivalence.

petal53

Casdon
You can carry on supporting your party till the cows come home, but clearly there are many others who are deeply annoyed by the hypocrisy of the Labour Party.
What a shame there is so little solidarity with other women.

All my friends, Barr one are not going to vote this government back in - I am glad to hear it!

The faces of those MPs on the front benches said it all for me when the PM made this absolutely disgraceful announcement. All those MPs who had supported Waspi women were ashamed.

We should all have known that Starmer is a liar.
It’s that simple.
Whether people knew about pension changes or not is not the issue here, the issue is Starmer’s refusal to pay the paltry compensation to millions of women, that the ombudsman has said should be paid.

That post was in reply to Primrose53.

Well, apparently, all that meant nothing because it wasn't in the manifesto.

How many people saw them with those placards, calling for justice and how many actually read their manifesto? They were on tv, in the media, looking for publicity.

Apparently, everyone should have realised all that meant nothing , as it wasn't in the manifesto.
It was all for show.

It’s ridiculous for people to keep questioning why some women were unaware of the changes when the PHSO has gone to painstaking lengths to explain exactly what happened at the DWP - or rather what should have happened and didn't.

The DWP knew in 2004 that its publicity campaign was not reaching the women it needed to reach and yet it did nothing about for the next three years. It finally admitted that it needed to tell each woman individually how she was affected but said its Customer Information Systems were incomplete and that it would take until at least 2009 to tackle the task. It’s all set out here:

www.ombudsman.org.uk/publications/womens-state-pension-age-our-findings-department-work-and-pensions-communication/what-did-happen

Paragraphs 114 to 124 are particularly damning. 2009 was only a year away from when the first women (born after 5 April 1950) would see their SP date change.

Here’s one paragraph that seems particularly pertinent in view of today’s news.

116. An internal DWP memo from April 2007 described the 2007 research findings as ‘depressing reading’. The memo reflects on the lack of progress since 2004 and the prospect of future complaints from women. It states:

‘You floated the idea of contacting the Ombudsman to get a feel for how she would react to claims from women saying they had never been told or were not aware that state pension age is increasing. In the light of the lack of upward movement from our 43% base figure from 3 years ago, we suggest putting this off until we can explain our strategy from here to get the message over. If we go now, we face being painted into a corner. Despite a really strong defensive brief, we still have 50% “ignorance levels” with three years to go. [The Ombudsman’s] first question will be what are you proposing to do about it?’

In the light of the lack of upward movement from our 43% base figure … and yet now we have Starmer et al claiming that there was 90% awareness.

Just watching clips of Starmer, Cooper, Rayner in 2019 totally saying Waspi women should get compensation.

I don’t know how they can sleep at night. They weren’t just briefly giving their opinion they were holding Waspi placards, talking in depth and very in support of these women.