Southport Murders, latest

GrannyGravy13

M0nica you posted The lynch mentality of so many on this thread disgusts me

Well what disgusts me is the brutal murder of three innocent little girls and the attempted murder of eight other children and adults…

So English Law disgusts you. What form of law would you prefer?

No surprise, I’m with Wyllow and. Monica on this one.
GrannyGravy, I’m sure you don’t believe that those of us attempting to explain our legal system, or ensure a fair trial are not as horrified, shocked, devastated, sickened and more than you are about his brutal crimes. I say ‘his’ brutal crimes because there seems no room for doubt.

We live in a democracy. We’ve seen many positive comments about the Judge in the Sara S trial. I’m confident the Judge responsible for this trial will manage in a way that ensures the defendant has a fair trial and so can receive an appropriate sentence,

Its not an either/or.

We can be disgusted with the crime but also with the reaction by some people to the accused.

We cant know what if anything a psyche evaluation has revealed.

I'm with Monica & Wyllow too.
And what is autism if it isn't a mental health condition?

M0nica

nanaK54

If he refused to answer and enter a plea, perhaps that should have been 'guilty' entered for him?

What horrible, horrible posts.

Nothing is known about this person. For all we know he may be seriously mentally ill

I think he has remained mute in all legal proceedings so far. All that happened today is that he remained mute when asked how he pleaded and as he did not speak the judge had to enter a plea for him, and as is normal in all such situaations, and they are not uncommon, he entered a plea of 'not guilty'.

This means that there will now be a full and fair trial where, I am sure, there will be lengthy discussion of his mental state and all circumstances around this dreadful event.

The lynch mentality of so many on this thread disgusts me.

Wow!
Did you notice the question mark at the end of my post?
It was a question.
I do not have a 'lynch mentality' at all.
I am hurt by your accusation.

Iam64

No surprise, I’m with Wyllow and. Monica on this one.
GrannyGravy, I’m sure you don’t believe that those of us attempting to explain our legal system, or ensure a fair trial are not as horrified, shocked, devastated, sickened and more than you are about his brutal crimes. I say ‘his’ brutal crimes because there seems no room for doubt.

We live in a democracy. We’ve seen many positive comments about the Judge in the Sara S trial. I’m confident the Judge responsible for this trial will manage in a way that ensures the defendant has a fair trial and so can receive an appropriate sentence,

I hope you are right Iam64 the judge in the Sara S trial got his summing up and sentencing spot on.

My posts probably do appear unreasonable to some.

I haven’t got a lynch mob mentality

I do disagree with defendants being allowed to appear via video link whatever their crime, whoever they are.

GrannyGravy13

Iam64

No surprise, I’m with Wyllow and. Monica on this one.
GrannyGravy, I’m sure you don’t believe that those of us attempting to explain our legal system, or ensure a fair trial are not as horrified, shocked, devastated, sickened and more than you are about his brutal crimes. I say ‘his’ brutal crimes because there seems no room for doubt.

We live in a democracy. We’ve seen many positive comments about the Judge in the Sara S trial. I’m confident the Judge responsible for this trial will manage in a way that ensures the defendant has a fair trial and so can receive an appropriate sentence,

I hope you are right Iam64 the judge in the Sara S trial got his summing up and sentencing spot on.

My posts probably do appear unreasonable to some.

I haven’t got a lynch mob mentality

I do disagree with defendants being allowed to appear via video link whatever their crime, whoever they are.

But that's the current law - and he has every right to choose it. I don't see what purpose it serves for a defendant to appear in person.

nanaK54

If he refused to answer and enter a plea, perhaps that should have been 'guilty' entered for him?

In English Law, nobody has a right to decide somebody is guilty unless the defendant admits it or a jury decides it. Would you honestly prefer another form of law? The whole point is that people are convicted according to rational systems rather than emotional responses.

growstuff

nanaK54

If he refused to answer and enter a plea, perhaps that should have been 'guilty' entered for him?

In English Law, nobody has a right to decide somebody is guilty unless the defendant admits it or a jury decides it. Would you honestly prefer another form of law? The whole point is that people are convicted according to rational systems rather than emotional responses.

Wyllow3 clarified that earlier today, but thank you.

Attending the initial hearing by video link to the prison is quote common. Its confirming name, ID, and stating whether it's a guilty or not guilty pleading. Often takes about 15 minutes.

Rather ordinary considerations come into play, it's cheaper less prison officer time.

Attending the trial by video link is rather different and needs "special circumstances".

valdavi

I'm with Monica & Wyllow too.
And what is autism if it isn't a mental health condition?

Autism is NOT a mental health condition!

Autism is a developmental condition. People with autism can experience mental health problems, as do people who are not autistic.
Is there a known diagnosis of ASD in the Southport perpetrator? Or a known diagnosis of mental health problems. I expect most of us expect psychiatric assessments to aid the Court

Surely most people could say they had mental health problems if they commit murder. In fact I'd say many must have issues. After all, most of us don't do this.

This dreadful event took place 5 minutes from my house. I know people who are affected.

I hope they're not on GN.

Iam64

Autism is a developmental condition. People with autism can experience mental health problems, as do people who are not autistic.
Is there a known diagnosis of ASD in the Southport perpetrator? Or a known diagnosis of mental health problems. I expect most of us expect psychiatric assessments to aid the Court

I don't know Iam64. I read in a second hand source that he's on the spectrum and delved a bit deeper, but couldn't find any primary source. As ever, there's an awful lot of speculation and amateur psychiatry.

Sago

valdavi

I'm with Monica & Wyllow too.
And what is autism if it isn't a mental health condition?

Autism is NOT a mental health condition!

No, it absolutely isn't.

valdavi

I'm with Monica & Wyllow too.
And what is autism if it isn't a mental health condition?

In suggest you educate yourself before classing autism as a mental health condition. Plenty of information on the internet. Read and learn. Remarks like yours are inaccurate and distressing.

Also, the judge claimed that he was mute of malice

A mute of malice is a defendant in a criminal case who willfully chooses not to speak, as opposed to one who does not speak because he is physically or psychologically unable to do so

GrannyGravy13

M0nica you posted The lynch mentality of so many on this thread disgusts me

Well what disgusts me is the brutal murder of three innocent little girls and the attempted murder of eight other children and adults…

The murders have happened, your opinion is justified.

We know nothing about the murderer, it is still theoretically possible that they have arrested the wrong person.

Your opinion on the person accused should be suspended until all the circumstances around the case are known and he/she is convicted of murder.

This is what is so disgusting about the lynch mentality, it is an unthinking knee jerk reaction that could kill an innocent person just because someone thinks they might be guilty of killing someone.

Louella12

Also, the judge claimed that he was mute of malice

*A mute of malice is a defendant in a criminal case who willfully chooses not to speak, as opposed to one who does not speak because he is physically or psychologically unable to do so*

As you say, 'the judge claimed' It might not actually be so. We will not know until the trial takes place.

No, MOnica. The judge said his unwillingness to speak was mute of malice and that's what that means. The trial, if a trial happens ,will not change that.

Unfortunately I'm far too aware of a lot of this case.

And I'm horrified that you can actually say they might have arrested the wrong person. How much proof do you need? He was caught, knife in hand, neighbours were stabbed in an attempt to stop him.

I guess you're not aware of the facts of this case that are available in the public domain.

I said THEORETICALLY arrested the wrong man - or woman.

In Britain anyone who is accused of a crime, no matter how heinous, must be assumed to be innocent until they are proved guilty. This man has yet to be tried.

There have been far too many cases of people convicted of rape and murder, whose blood people have bayed for, who have later been found innocent. All I am doing is saying is that we must obey the rule of law that states that someone is innocent until proved guilty, or we might as well swap it for mob rule and all that goes with it.

This is what is so disgusting about the lynch mentality, it is an unthinking knee jerk reaction that could kill an innocent person just because someone thinks they might be guilty of killing someone.

As far as I know, the death penalty in this country was abolished in 1998.

The defendant does have the right to remain silent but I can understand how strongly people feel about this case.

What I don't understand is some of the remarks made by others to those who are upset by this case. Not everyone can look on a case like this in a dispassionate, clinical manner as some do.

GrannyGravy13

M0nica you posted The lynch mentality of so many on this thread disgusts me

Well what disgusts me is the brutal murder of three innocent little girls and the attempted murder of eight other children and adults…

I can manage to be disgusted at both. This man must have a fair trial, by jury not by public opinion.

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

M0nica you posted The lynch mentality of so many on this thread disgusts me

Well what disgusts me is the brutal murder of three innocent little girls and the attempted murder of eight other children and adults…

So English Law disgusts you. What form of law would you prefer?

Your response to GrannyGravy makes no sense, it's a non-sequitur

HousePlantQueen

GrannyGravy13

M0nica you posted The lynch mentality of so many on this thread disgusts me

Well what disgusts me is the brutal murder of three innocent little girls and the attempted murder of eight other children and adults…

I can manage to be disgusted at both. This man must have a fair trial, by jury not by public opinion.

No-one has said otherwise have they?

Just as the law needs to be changed regarding convicted prisoners refusing to come to court to hear the judge's sentencing, perhaps defendants should have to appear in court to hear the charges against them.

It's a point for discussion, particularly in the light of the riots resulting from this case.