Southport Murders, latest

The one to which Trump had people illegally deported?

Good post Dickens

MT62. I know Peter Sutcliffe was suffering from paranoid schizophrenua because I worked with one of the forensic consultant psychiatrists who was part of the team who assessed him

mumofmadboys

MT62. I know Peter Sutcliffe was suffering from paranoid schizophrenua because I worked with one of the forensic consultant psychiatrists who was part of the team who assessed him

I have also worked in a psychiatric hospital.
It’s rare but it can happen that someone pretends to have bad mental health. They are usually sussed out eventually.

That’s the key po8nt MT62. Anyone working with offenders, Courts, mental health services, police and other agencies will be familiar with people trying to ‘work the system’. The idea that psychiatrists familiar with these individuals can be easily conned is simply wrong.

I would not want our prisons to be guided by El Salvador or the USA - Scandi or sensible Northern European countries, yes please

It’s reported that he fooled doctors, teachers and social workers 26 times since he was about 13 so fooling psychiatrists should not be too difficult. Hoping they suss him out and get him back in prison asap.

Lets hope so.

AR is still only 19 years of age and probably not as clever as he thinks he is. He will be under constant supervision in Broadmoor so if he is pretending, it is likely that he will be found out and sent back to prison. He is a danger to prison staff and difficult to manage so this seems to be an appropriate way to deal with him as he currently presents.

I read the DM article saying AR ‘fooled’ doctors, social workers etc. my reading is he lied to them, that doesn’t mean he fooled them. Young men / children like him lie as a matter of course. It doesn’t mean they fool people.
I don’t understand why it’s thought he’s manipulated for a Broadmoor assessment. It’s secure, he will not be free to amble about. He poses a high risk to others, particularly staff. Broadmoor seems the right place for him currently, which is the conclusion reached by those responsible for him. If he’s refusing medications for example, these can be forcibly administered there, but not in prison.

He was always going to be a high risk which begs the question, why was he allowed a kettle ? a privilege surely? He subsequently douses a prison officer in boiling water. It's as if, they have no control. I hope this shift to Broadmoor, if as reported, will see him endure a stringent, unrelenting regime where his outbursts aren't tolerated. Let him stew there for the rest of his days.

If he was kept in his cell and had his meals passed to him through a hatch he would be no threat to anybody. His one hour out of the cell he should be escorted by 4 guards, again no danger to anybody.

By saying they cannot deal with him safely I think this is the start of a slippery slope and Broadmoor and other hospitals will be overflowing with “patients”.

Governors, prison officers and probation officers will confirm if all the prisoners with mental health problems were placed in mh units, the prisons would have a lot of room available,

We don’t know what ARs diagnosis is and I’m happy to accept the medics assessing him know a lot more than we do. It was guidance that personality disorders were not made before age 18. Would anyone be surprised if AR is diagnosed with personality disorders and psychosis? I’m in no way defending any of his behaviour especially the murders. His behaviour as a primary school child raised concerns. Whatever interventions used were inadequate.

Why does there appear to be criticism of him going to Broadmoor, if that is the most suitable facility?

Primrose53

If he was kept in his cell and had his meals passed to him through a hatch he would be no threat to anybody. His one hour out of the cell he should be escorted by 4 guards, again no danger to anybody.

By saying they cannot deal with him safely I think this is the start of a slippery slope and Broadmoor and other hospitals will be overflowing with “patients”.

Oh the slippery slope argument. Sure sign the argument’s been lost.

A slippery slope argument is when someone makes an argument, with little to no evidence, to insist that this course of action will lead to a chain reaction resulting in an undesirable end.

When someone has such a belief, on a slippery slope basis, nothing and no evidence is likely to change their position?

14:08*Primrose*53

I agree Primrose he should be kept in solitary confinement with no priviledges and made to suffer that's what I'd call justice.

I don't think Rudakubana did fool everyone; several very experienced people involved with him expressed grave concerns but were ignored or accused of racism: 'poor black boy with a knife'.

Maremia

Why does there appear to be criticism of him going to Broadmoor, if that is the most suitable facility?

... I believe because there are those who see this as a 'soft' option rather than the appropriate environment for someone who is clearly stretching the limits of what a prison can cope with?

Dickens I believe you’re correct. Broadmoor is no soft option. Additionally the point about managing him in prison can’t be ignored

Loss of liberty for life is his punishment. I see no point or positive outcome for anyone in solitary confinement, no privileges and made to suffer. What kind of individuals would want to work in such an environment?

Iam64

Dickens I believe you’re correct. Broadmoor is no soft option. Additionally the point about managing him in prison can’t be ignored

Loss of liberty for life is his punishment. I see no point or positive outcome for anyone in solitary confinement, no privileges and made to suffer. What kind of individuals would want to work in such an environment?

What kind of individuals would want to work in such an environment?

Quite.

Cage AR in the same way as a wild predatory animal and - apart from any other consideration - anyone coming into contact with him will be at risk.

I believe that even those who are in solitary confinement have to occasionally be seen by doctors or dentists or those among the prison staff.

I've no idea of the mental status of AR but clearly he's mentally unstable and has to be managed. People may not agree with the rules and regulations covering the treatment of prisoners, but they exist and those in charge have to operate within their confines, regardless of what we think.

'Lock-him-up-and-throw-away-the-key" works only in one's head, not in real life. We've devised a penal system that seeks to both punish and rehabilitate, that's what civilised societies do; it might be imperfect but it's better than complete prison anarchy. Of course some inmates will be beyond redemption, but they have to be accommodated and managed - and are being within a system that's crumbling, is underfunded and understaffed.

Thanks Dickens