Terrorist attack in Germany.

escaped

German newspapers I've read are reporting that the perpetrator intended to die in the attack. His last Will and Testament was found in the BMW car which he had rented just a week earlier.

I heard later he did have explosives in his car but they didn’t go off- how true that is I don’t know?

Galaxy

I dont know. Does the opposite apply?
Is goodness a manifestation of good mental health.

I think you certainly feel better for doing something good, a favour, giving a compliment, it does my MH good for sure.

petal53

I don’t think people are born evil, but I don’t really know how they become evil either. Sometimes it might be their experiences but often it seems to be just how they develop. I don’t know, it’s interesting, but I don’t know the answer.

I have a friend who has fostered for most of her life- small children that she has fostered that have severe MH, have come from backgrounds where the baby was born to parents who were drug addicts.
One was born to a mother that was into drugs & prostitution, the mother was murdered as a result. The child has gone on to have various problems- is it learnt in early development or is it in their genes ?

Mt61

petal53

I don’t think people are born evil, but I don’t really know how they become evil either. Sometimes it might be their experiences but often it seems to be just how they develop. I don’t know, it’s interesting, but I don’t know the answer.

I have a friend who has fostered for most of her life- small children that she has fostered that have severe MH, have come from backgrounds where the baby was born to parents who were drug addicts.
One was born to a mother that was into drugs & prostitution, the mother was murdered as a result. The child has gone on to have various problems- is it learnt in early development or is it in their genes ?

The answer is both some are born with an aggressive set of genes, some aquire an aggressive personality due to abuse or indoctrination. Despots like Stalin or Hitler probably had the potential from birth and attracted others with the same potential.

Mt61

escaped

German newspapers I've read are reporting that the perpetrator intended to die in the attack. His last Will and Testament was found in the BMW car which he had rented just a week earlier.

I heard later he did have explosives in his car but they didn’t go off- how true that is I don’t know?

We travelled to a Rugby matching France last week security was very tight with a massive police presence, road barriers everywhere. A big contrast to UK policing where there are only 2 or 3 officers at a Rugby match.

The terrorist risk in Europe is taken very seriously, lone wolf attacks are very difficult the guard against, the security services try to monitor individuals that are a risk, it not possible to take action on every risk.

The Ed. Psych I worked with said that if mothers were taking drugs while pregnant it was almost impossible to overcome the damage they suffered in the womb however well they were nurtured once born. This was born out by a family of adopted children we were working with at the time and their difficult and challenging behaviour in later life.

My experience as well as research I’ve read tends to confirm eazybee’s post at 08.08 today.
Drug/alcohol abuse during pregnancy is harmful to the developing baby. That’s compounded by poor diet, chaotic lifestyle and often with the violence that walks with substance misuse.
Anyone who has been around tiny infants screaming in heroin withdrawal won’t forget that. It’s also no unknown for babies to remain with birth parents until things get really bad, so neglect or inconsistently met needs

The terrorist risk in Europe is taken very seriously, lone wolf attacks are very difficult the guard against, the security services try to monitor individuals that are a risk, it not possible to take action on every risk.
Exactly this David49.
Apparently the perpetrator had said on X (Twitter) back in May, that he would be dead for his cause by the end of the year. The German authorities were well aware of his rants and were monitoring him. The problem is how to work out in advance, who, amongst all those making threats on the internet or at protests, is going to actually carry out the deed.

As an aside, I have my suspicions that France might have shot him on the spot like, if I remember correctly, the French police did in Nice.

PS the Nice perpetrator was armed, I don’t think (?) the Magdeburg one was.

Iam64

My experience as well as research I’ve read tends to confirm eazybee’s post at 08.08 today.
Drug/alcohol abuse during pregnancy is harmful to the developing baby. That’s compounded by poor diet, chaotic lifestyle and often with the violence that walks with substance misuse.
Anyone who has been around tiny infants screaming in heroin withdrawal won’t forget that. It’s also no unknown for babies to remain with birth parents until things get really bad, so neglect or inconsistently met needs

Absolutely

Every person is the result of the coming together of 2 different gene sets. What genes from each side go into the final mix is based on chance. It produces sinners and it produces saints.

We know that neural diversity is the result of genetics and i think there is reason to believe that some psychiatric conditions, psychpathy, for one, have genetic origins.

valdali

Psychopathy is a mental illness too. Partly genetic but also very much due to problems in early infancy'
The legal definition of mental illness as a reason not to try a person as a rational adult, I think if psychiatrists diagnose them with a temporary treatable loss of rationality then mental rehabilitation rather than penal servitude is deemed correct.

I don't think you can differentiate between "mental illness" and "mental condition" much as I can see why people want to. They are many and varied, the long term "conditions" like personality disorder, OCD, ADHS, autism, schizophrenia can be treatable or at least ameliorated, and the more familiar depression and anxiety can lead to catastrophy if not treated.None should be a cause for social stigma.

Indeed Vivaldi.. I just made the distinction because I think that that that is the only time the word evil can be used in some cases.. psychopaths can be completely rational when they carry out atrocities..

Yes, I’m seeing that many of you think genetics are possibly the driving factor, coupled with childhood/early experiences. That probably explains it. The genetics must be big though. I know from my own family about mental health issues that I am certain are genetic and I’ve seen passed along the generations. I don’t mean anyone in my family is so driven by genetics that they would kill someone, but I do know I am unable to have a relationship with my sister due to her mental issues. She’s cruel, very cruel, and this appears to be just her nature. Some people may be like this but worse, far more disturbed and dangerous.

Genetics: that is what it must be. Compounded by experiences.

This man in Germany was capable of an act of great evil. His genes made him susceptible, his experiences (prevailing culture in SA) gave him the ability to do something so abhorrent to the rest of us.

There seems to be an awful lot of effort trying to explain his behavior as anything but jihadist. And yet his actions are precisely of a jihadist attack. There was a great gathering of defenders of refugees marching in Germany last night. While it could be said every attack eg Manchester arena or Southport is because of mental health issues it would be nieve to ignore the real threats that are firing these acts.

I think he was a jihadist to be honest. He despised western society seemingly.

Rocknroll5me

There seems to be an awful lot of effort trying to explain his behavior as anything but jihadist. And yet his actions are precisely of a jihadist attack. There was a great gathering of defenders of refugees marching in Germany last night. While it could be said every attack eg Manchester arena or Southport is because of mental health issues it would be nieve to ignore the real threats that are firing these acts.

That would be because most of those posting about him, after looking at all the information available, including from Germany's own counter terror organisation disagree with you.

He wasn't a jihadist - you have no evidence of that - you are basing your views on your own prejudice and assumptions.

Sadly, as we know there are "lone wolf" attacks whether its school massacres or trying to shoot Trump or our own Dunblane

and its borderline racist to assume because this lone wolf was from Saudi he "must" be jihad.

petal53

I think he was a jihadist to be honest. He despised western society seemingly.

I don't think he did, from all the evidence we had.

The evidence seems to show he was desperate to fit in, in some way. although he wasn't really able to - too off the wall.

He wasn't a muslim he was an atheist, he even joined the German right wing AfD. He did say in some of his later comleltey crazy postings "they are out to get me" - he'd descended into aspects of paranoia by then.

Well have to agree to disagree Wyllow.

Not the first time! 🙂

But seriously, he was not assessed as such by the German Counter Terror forces, after monitoring.

I'm not sure, actually.
I've been reading Gernan newspapers, in the original language, and, as I understand it German Counter Terror forces DID see him as a terror "risk" in the first place resulting in their assessing him more than once I believe. How a risk gets elevated to a real threat, however, I don't know.
The mood from the German newspapers certainly sounds one of regret, one of wishing with hindsight more could have been done.

I don't live in Germany to comment about the bigger picture. I don't speak with many Gernans unlike I do frequently with many French people where insight can be gleaned. I think there is an occasional GN poster who does live in Germany, but I don’t think she comments about current affairs.

Gernan should read German?!

"The mood from the German newspapers certainly sounds one of regret, one of wishing with hindsight more could have been done." And quite right too in terms of the future.
He was assessed as a threat but not as a jihadist.

I guess the fact that he didn't present as your typical militant Islamist blindsided the authorities to some extent. It has been said that in the future, no stone will be unturned, and I guess that means a more thorough assessment of all aspects of a potential terrorist's life. Personally I don't think complete protection from calculating or opportunist evil doers can ever be guaranteed to anyone.

He had renounced Islam very critically a long time ago. It's why Saudi Arabia wanted to extradite him and was given refugee status.

But from all that we can read, he was certainly a strange, troubled, and complex personality seeking publicity for something I don't think he would ever find.

I do agree " Personally I don't think complete protection from calculating or opportunist evil doers can ever be guaranteed to anyone"

petal53

Yes, I’m seeing that many of you think genetics are possibly the driving factor, coupled with childhood/early experiences. That probably explains it. The genetics must be big though. I know from my own family about mental health issues that I am certain are genetic and I’ve seen passed along the generations. I don’t mean anyone in my family is so driven by genetics that they would kill someone, but I do know I am unable to have a relationship with my sister due to her mental issues. She’s cruel, very cruel, and this appears to be just her nature. Some people may be like this but worse, far more disturbed and dangerous.

Genetics: that is what it must be. Compounded by experiences.

This man in Germany was capable of an act of great evil. His genes made him susceptible, his experiences (prevailing culture in SA) gave him the ability to do something so abhorrent to the rest of us.

I’m inclined to agree with you Petal53. Like yiu, I have family members who are very difficult to live easily alongside, so much drama, so many volatile criticisms of others, based o little if any evidence.
We can link the behaviours to other family members in our heritage, a need for excitement, a need for drama, a continuing tendency to deny responsibility but place it on others.