Reform. 140,748 members and counting. The Tories are well and truly in trouble!

Even if the Uk switched overnight to a part State funded part insurance health model, it would not make any difference a

This is where you're not putting 2 and 2 together, ronib. The source of the funding is utterly irrelevant. It's all money, wherever it comes from.

What is relevant is the amount of money it is given and the use that is made of it.

I'm willing to bet that the French Health Service hasn't been messed about for ideological reasons and kept short of money for the past 14 years.

We don't have any 'socialism', Boz.

The Americans don't have a clue as to what socialism is, so why on earth do we have to take any notice of what they think?

MaizieD okay the French system doesn’t seem to suffer from the same ideological issues which plague the UK. It seems to work well in France.
Exactly how this country recovers any sense of normal service remains to be seen. I am waiting in anticipation for the great unveiling in the spring by the current in place health secretary. So let’s wait and see how the funding works then.

ronib

MaizieD okay the French system doesn’t seem to suffer from the same ideological issues which plague the UK. It seems to work well in France.
Exactly how this country recovers any sense of normal service remains to be seen. I am waiting in anticipation for the great unveiling in the spring by the current in place health secretary. So let’s wait and see how the funding works then.

Not sharing the same ideological issues still has nothing to do with the funding.

The French health system is better because it's better funded.

There is nothing magical about it being part insurance based that makes it better than our NHS.

MaizieD Amanda Pritchard as head of the NHS was promoting the best bang for your buck approach- that sounds like ideology to me.

ronib

MaizieD Amanda Pritchard as head of the NHS was promoting the best bang for your buck approach- that sounds like ideology to me.

Or a pragmatic approach.

ronib

MaizieD okay the French system doesn’t seem to suffer from the same ideological issues which plague the UK. It seems to work well in France.
Exactly how this country recovers any sense of normal service remains to be seen. I am waiting in anticipation for the great unveiling in the spring by the current in place health secretary. So let’s wait and see how the funding works then.

Which ideological issues do you mean?

I should have addressed that question to Maizie.

Mamie

The top-up insurers are just insurance companies. You can have house, car and health with the same company. No bureaucrats involved.

Presumably the insurance companies have staff to deal with health insurance.

LizzieDrip

^As far as I am aware the insurance companies pay for the costs of running their own businesses^

Mamie and, of course, the insurance companies raise the money needed to ‘run their businesses’ from the premiums paid by their customers.

Insurance is a highly lucrative money making industry ‘preying’ on people’s fear of the unknown. What greater fear than that of our health. “Kerching” for the insurance companies!!!

The insurance is a top-up of 30% payment of existing treatment. If the doctor decides that I need physio, the state pays 70% and the top-up 30%. It is strictly regulated by the health service. You can chose not to pay, but then you will have to pay the 30% yourself unless you are below the income threshold. It is not something that you can compare with private health insurance in the UK. You can't use it to queue jump or choose your consultant. It is an individually funded portion of the state funding for those who have sufficient income. If you haven't sufficient income you get 100% funding. Serious illnesses are covered at 100%
The insurance companies will make money, but they cannot refuse cover or exclude conditions. Many of them were originally "mutual" companies designed for the purpose.

Ok, sort of got it. Thank you.

So the taxpayer pays a considerable % of health costs through (google)
"Funding: The French health care system is funded by payroll taxes, income tax, taxes on tobacco and alcohol, taxes on the pharmaceutical industry, voluntary health insurance companies, and state subsidies.

Which makes it confusing as to why its mentioned in connection to Reform, since its a version of the NHS?

Wyllow3

Ok, sort of got it. Thank you.

So the taxpayer pays a considerable % of health costs through (google)
"Funding: The French health care system is funded by payroll taxes, income tax, taxes on tobacco and alcohol, taxes on the pharmaceutical industry, voluntary health insurance companies, and state subsidies.

Which makes it confusing as to why its mentioned in connection to Reform, since its a version of the NHS?

I don't understand Reform embracing the French system either, as it is basically a socialist system - to each according to his needs etc.
The biggest parts of the 70% are the equivalent of National Insurance and the income tax.

Which is pretty much the same.

nanna8

Everything costs a fortune for us in Australia because we are not eligible for a government pension. We think twice about going to the doctor and even though we have private health insurance for hospital cover ,the ‘gap’ between what is insured and what is not insured is very big. We get no relief on anything except public transport which we rarely use anyway. Do not, I repeat, do not, go down that road. We are not rich but we are not poor,either, so we get ‘punished’ If
Farage wants to bring in our system duck and run!

nanna could you help us with the following information?

Everything costs a fortune for us in Australia because we are not eligible for a government pension What are the eligability criteria?

We get no relief on anything except public transport which we rarely use anyway. As I understood it there us a level of free or low cost healthcare available to all citizens. Could you confirm what is actually available free and to whom?

I would like to be able to work out whether the different system for pensions or the different system for healthcare would affect those coming after us if the country decided to follow these routes. We have already made moves towards means-tested pensions for future pensioners.

Wow! Reform UK membership stands at 160,707 this morning!
Happy start to the New Year. 😁

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Wow! Reform UK membership stands at 160,707 this morning!
Happy start to the New Year. 😁

They are definitely giving Labour and Conservatives something to ponder on…

I don’t think I’m alone in getting a little fed up with the assumption that the US system is the only alternative.
This is a good piece on the French system.

This question is only meant light hearted.
If, just if😂 Reform were to win an election and bring in the French system ( or any system that’s better) would all his transgressions be forgiven?
www.spectator.co.uk/article/french-healthcare-shows-theres-another-way-for-the-nhs/

petra

I don’t think I’m alone in getting a little fed up with the assumption that the US system is the only alternative.
This is a good piece on the French system.

This question is only meant light hearted.
If, just if😂 Reform were to win an election and bring in the French system ( or any system that’s better) would all his transgressions be forgiven?
www.spectator.co.uk/article/french-healthcare-shows-theres-another-way-for-the-nhs/

I'm getting a bit fed up with the assumption that 'insurance' is a magic bullet that will instantly improve our NHS.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Wow! Reform UK membership stands at 160,707 this morning!
Happy start to the New Year. 😁

Conservatives and labour should be quivering and bivering….😁

I am not surprised that Reform is attracting new members. I watched both broadcasts by Starmer and Farage and Farage won by miles in presentation and persuasion. I know who would sell more second hand cars …..

I am not Reforms target vote but I can understand their appeal to many. Labour is flat-lining the economy, so what can you expect; now polling below the Tories on the economy (Yougov).
A bleak New Year for us all.

ronib

I am not surprised that Reform is attracting new members. I watched both broadcasts by Starmer and Farage and Farage won by miles in presentation and persuasion. I know who would sell more second hand cars …..

I laughed at the comment about cars! I think Starmer wouldn’t sell any at all, he is so wooden. Do you think he is ill ? Seriously. I don’t like him at all but I wouldn’t wish illness on him or anyone. I suppose I will get accused of starting rumours now sigh

I’m so relieved that you don’t wish illness on him especially as his brother has just died.

nanna8

ronib

I am not surprised that Reform is attracting new members. I watched both broadcasts by Starmer and Farage and Farage won by miles in presentation and persuasion. I know who would sell more second hand cars …..

I laughed at the comment about cars! I think Starmer wouldn’t sell any at all, he is so wooden. Do you think he is ill ? Seriously. I don’t like him at all but I wouldn’t wish illness on him or anyone. I suppose I will get accused of starting rumours now sigh

Starmer lacks charisma in many people's eyes (mine included), but why that should lead to suspicions of an illness beats me.

We've had a couple of charismatic leaders - one dragged us into a war even though millions marched against it, and the other gave us a half-baked Brexit.

Perhaps we should - ultimately - judge Starmer on his competence rather than his celebrity-appeal?

Perhaps we should - ultimately - judge Starmer on his competence rather than his celebrity-appeal

Hear, hear Dickens 👏👏👏