Reform. 140,748 members and counting. The Tories are well and truly in trouble!

I take your points Wyllow3 but I think if Reform doesn’t begin to firm up on its vision over the next 18 months or so, it won’t be difficult for politicians to pick up on this. Kemi B seems up for the fight. Reform is still in the process of making itself into a political movement so that won’t happen overnight.
I don’t think that Starmer will be bothered by Reform as it’s in Labour’s interest to split the right wing vote.

Galaxy

I think it is not just economic policies that need to be included in that. Many social/cultural issues cheered on by the 'haves' are absolutely disastrous for the have nots.

Yes, I agree.

I'd like to delve deeper into that. But it could be a minefield - you have to choose your words so carefully sometimes, and even then they can be misunderstood or mis-represented, sometimes deliberately.

nanna8

I actually agree with you Cossy and I wouldn’t vote for him ,he is too risky. However, I think Starmer needs to change and listen to people and if Nigel makes him do that, well good. Sometimes it takes someone with the gift of the gab to make changes. Farage is certainly gabby - the most talented speaker around just now, love him or despise him. To just dismiss and despise someone like that and his ‘populist’ supporters in a snooty way will make more people follow him. Life teaches some of us those things.

I agree nanna8, he has said he wants a health system like France where (he says you pay if you can & if you can't you don't) but he neglects to say not everyone gets free healthcare, you have to pay up front and you only get part of what you've spent back depending on the level of supplementary care you've bought.

I would also worry that not every condition would be paid for. I've watched my own podiatry care vanish in recent years and few have the luxury of an NHS dentist.

Farage is gobby, a disruptor, and that is his only saving grace, not that it does anything for me. I wouldn't trust him either, especially since his role in leaving the EU.

I tell people who vote Reform they must want to pay their own health bills, because that is what will happen.

Starmer's biggest fault is being so boring, but I see that as no bad thing in a PM, except that it stops you selling yourself to the people. I think having a press largely owned by billionaires gives people a biased account of the world most of them don't want to pay more tax. Labour does have people with better appeal, like Darren Jones for example

Oh I would possibly include the assisted dying bill as legislation which will have a different impact on the privileged than on the vulnerable.

Not particularly linked to the current government Maizie but mantras such as sex work is work, and lots of the other luxury beliefs.

ronib

Why is there such a rush for the public to demand opposition parties write their manifesto years in advance of the next election? I seem to remember that Reform had produced its own manifesto for the last election.
From what I understand, there are no guarantees that manifestos are followed up once elected so why fuss?

With Reform its not a matter of requesting a detailed manifesto as per election, it's that it talks "bold completely new visions" of a different kind of society politically and culturally - Small State, overturning present systems.

I think its reasonable to want details - a picture, of this apparent new vision and how the little elements its leaked (cut huge numbers civil service, that it can turn back the boats, completely different approach to health aligning ourselves with the USA not Europe - but what about other concerns like all our social welfare systems, education, prisons, justice system...

A few broad brush strokes and lots of rhetoric aren't good enough.

Its high on rhetoric but empty on credible vision

Incidentally, I read PoliticsNerd's post as being highly critical of GB News, not of the people who like it.

Galaxy

I think it is not just economic policies that need to be included in that. Many social/cultural issues cheered on by the 'haves' are absolutely disastrous for the have nots.

Can you give us some examples, Galaxy?

I actually think that raising the personal allowance to at least the value of the actual 'living wage' is a perfectly good idea. It would mean more money circulating in the economy because the poor actually spend extra money in their hands. Money which would still return to the government via taxation.

Unlike tax cuts for the wealthy, which just get squirreled away to earn more money, not spent. And very, very little of it returns via taxation.

But then, don't Reform promise tax cuts for the wealthy, too?

Lovetopaint:
Bang on, Yep

I think it is not just economic policies that need to be included in that. Many social/cultural issues cheered on by the 'haves' are absolutely disastrous for the have nots.

nanna8

That comment definitely makes me seek out GB news. If people feel that strongly about it , it must be doing something,right or wrong.I think it is on YouTube , watched it a couple of times a while back. Always good to check out what people get their knickers in a knot about. I would love to be childish at my age, great nanna of 6.

I decided to have a look one night, horrible man called Ben Leo or something like that was on. Talk about smug and full of your own importance. If they are all like him I will definitely give it a miss.

Of course there are presenters I don't like on other channels, Rinder occasionally on GMB, Naga Munchetty and Charlie Stayt on BBC are a combination from hell. However none of them seem as obnoxious as Ben.

Purely subjective but I think all political parties need more leaders and prospective MPs with a greater intellectual capacity, integrity, and less self-interest who might have the ability to recognise the deep divisions within our society and understand the consequences their economic policies might have on those disparate groups.

I don't believe we need any more messiahs - like (in my opinion) Blair, (Corbyn?), Johnson, Truss, Farage.

A party can only work 'for the common good' if it compensates both the 'haves' and the 'have nots' under the imperfect Capitalist system.

I think any nation's economic growth will only come from the backs of the people who work in it and therefore the government (whichever it is) of that nation will have to invest in its people if it really wants stability and growth. Simplistically speaking of course.

In what way do my posts contradict each other Allira? Do explain.

I actually agree with you Cossy and I wouldn’t vote for him ,he is too risky. However, I think Starmer needs to change and listen to people and if Nigel makes him do that, well good. Sometimes it takes someone with the gift of the gab to make changes. Farage is certainly gabby - the most talented speaker around just now, love him or despise him. To just dismiss and despise someone like that and his ‘populist’ supporters in a snooty way will make more people follow him. Life teaches some of us those things.

Why is there such a rush for the public to demand opposition parties write their manifesto years in advance of the next election? I seem to remember that Reform had produced its own manifesto for the last election.
From what I understand, there are no guarantees that manifestos are followed up once elected so why fuss?

In terms of Mr Farage, one only has to look at his history and life to realise what kind of person he is.

As for Reform, aside from migration and increasing the personal allowance to a mind boggling £20,000, I’ve seen little substance to their policies, certainly no costings, and no “how” and “when”

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I bet some are thinking ‘yep, like a hole in the head…’ 🤣
Actually are we even allowed to say that nowadays?
Oh well I just did.

It’s really good to have many differing views and opinions and beliefs and the means to express them, keep it up FGT, and everyone else too.

Hoorah for freedom of speech!

We all feel quite passionately about many things and it can become a bit heated, but most of us manage to express ourselves with civility and accept others may not agree with us.

Lovetopaint037

Anyone who actually believes Farage cares about anyone but himself is making a big mistake. His priority is self advancement. He is not a politician. He is an activist who uses the cover of “man of the people”in order to draw people into his ridiculous posturing.

He's a right-wing populist which is unfortunately why he appeals to a large proportion of the country.. and in that he is reflecting the mood of Europe and America. I think he is a real threat to progressive politics...

Lovetopaint037

Anyone who actually believes Farage cares about anyone but himself is making a big mistake. His priority is self advancement. He is not a politician. He is an activist who uses the cover of “man of the people”in order to draw people into his ridiculous posturing.

Yes, I agree, well said. Some of us can acknowledge that without making inflammatory comments about others.

This 'hail fellow, well met down the pub bloke' is just an act to try to make us think he's one of us.

I am a strong advocate for democracy, which inherently includes accepting that others may hold different views and make different choices at the ballot box. It’s important to recognize that supporting democracy means acknowledging diverse opinions, even when they oppose my own. I hope we can engage in constructive dialogue

It's just a lot of populist rot HousePlantQueen. I should try and ignore it. No one would waste time bringing in laws simply for the likes of GBeebies - their infantile drivel isn't worth it. They should generally be treated as they behave - like small children. Children in a paddy are best checked for safety and then ignored

Well, those two contradictory statements have given me a good chuckle, PoliticsNerd

😂

Anyone who actually believes Farage cares about anyone but himself is making a big mistake. His priority is self advancement. He is not a politician. He is an activist who uses the cover of “man of the people”in order to draw people into his ridiculous posturing.

nanna8

That comment definitely makes me seek out GB news. If people feel that strongly about it , it must be doing something,right or wrong.I think it is on YouTube , watched it a couple of times a while back. Always good to check out what people get their knickers in a knot about. I would love to be childish at my age, great nanna of 6.

😂😂😂

Your dialogue isnt constructive though. It is ridiculous to pretend it is.

Galaxy

I cant imagine why people dont vote in the way you want them to politics need, it's a complete mystery.

I am a strong advocate for democracy, which inherently includes accepting that others may hold different views and make different choices at the ballot box. It’s important to recognize that supporting democracy means acknowledging diverse opinions, even when they oppose my own. I hope we can engage in constructive dialogue instead of giving up on the democratic process.

nanna8

I’d rather be a populist than an unpopulist. Just saying. Not my problem,anyway. I quite like our Labor leader here but I can’t stand yours. He needs a boot up the proverbial.

Really? You see democracy as a worse choice than having people just telling you what you want to hear which they then don't carry out?

Democracy is difficult and messy and probably only for grown-ups but when did swaths of the population become so infantalized?