Cheer up, Bridget, your lucky day is nigh!

Oh 'eck!
I better look at up too.

It at.. my fingers are on strike today.

MaizieD

escaped

I agree Casdon that state schools will never ever have the specialist teaching expertise found in the independent sector. I don't just mean in academic subjects, but in Sport, Music, Art, Drama etc. It also needs specialist facilities to take children with exceptional talents to the highest level, and this requires real estate and state of the art premises. Most parents at private schools won't want to make their children poorer in their sporting and cultural life, so they will pay more knowing that their children are receiving the best of the best that can never be equalled by a state school.

I don't intend to join this utterly pointless discussion any further but I've read most of the posts and if vegansrock's post was deemed to be insulting to private school pupils I feel that this one is the other side of the coin and is extremely insulting to state school teachers and to state schools which provide an excellent all round education.

I'm surprised that none of the teachers or former teachers posting on here has pulled escaped up on it.

Yes I read this as an offensive generalisation.
The last 15 - 19 state upper school where I was Assistant Principal had a theatre, recording studio, and all weather sports pitches. We were next door to a public Olympic size swimming pool. Apart from the student that went to University, we often had students go on to RADA and the Central School of Speech and Drama. Also we had strong links with Cambridge colleges.
I could name famous Alumni but that would breach my identity.
I was responsible for SEND and the Able and More Able remit, both frequently recognised as outstanding.
I’m sure there are many state secondary schools doing the same.

Was that an Academy or a State school, J52?

If so and that is the norm, why all the controversy about the Tories neglecting state education?

Was the decline in education under the Tories a myth perpetuated by Labour?

For a decade we have seen the effects of the Tories’ neglect and underfunding of education, says Kate Green MP
Shadow Secretary of State for Education
September 2021

If your school is an example of good State education then what is the truth?

We were a state school at that time. I’m not suggesting it was the norm. There are many state schools in dire situations.
I was replying to the implication that “ state schools will never have the specialist teaching expertise found in the independent sector”. Also that state schools wouldn’t have the specialised facilities.
In order to get ours we had to fund raise, bid for grants that matched any government funding.
I would also mention that private schools do not have to employ fully qualified staff.
I personally don’t have anything against private education if that what a parent wants. I myself was educated at a selective Voluntary Aided Grammar school and my husband at a well known independent London boys school. We sent our sons to state schools.

Sorry for some missed plurals! Trying to cook lunch at the same time!

I was replying to the implication that “ state schools will never have the specialist teaching expertise found in the independent sector”. Also that state schools wouldn’t have the specialised facilities.

I took that to mean that the funding is simply not available for what successive governments consider to be non-essential 'extras'. The LA where my DGC go to school (and where my DC did years ago) was one of the last to axe funding for music services but, alas, that has gone along with many other 'extras' which were offered.

J52

Sorry for some missed plurals! Trying to cook lunch at the same time!

I blame the stylus!

We were a state school at that time. I’m not suggesting it was the norm. There are many state schools in dire situations
There are no doubt "some" state schools with good facilities and specialist teachers, but not usually all in the one setting. This is where it comes back to parental choice. You choose the school that can offer the full package, and there are plenty of these in the private sector. In a state school the pool of pupils, (and, for clarity, I don't mean the Olympic sized one!), even wanting to practise say whitewater canoeing is very tiny, so employing a BCAB coach wouldn't be feasible. Independent schools do.
My DGD and GS don't even have PE teacher at their state primary. The class teacher does ALL, and that includes French and Music. I take my hat off to her/him, but it isn't "specialist".

People sending their children and/or grandchildren to private schools have paid tax on their income already. I am guessing here but a fair few will be in the 40% bracket.
100% GrannyGravy13.

And?
People are taxed on their incomes.
It's a thing.

Like so many areas, State Education has been underfunded for years.

Yes, there are some great examples of academies that provide, often through the efforts of parents or very talented staff, an adequate and imaginative education (a few miles from me is one of the top rated academies in the country for performing and musical arts).

However this school is of need of major structural repairs neglected for a long time.

In general as well as the fabric of the buildings and equipment for some subjects, class sizes are too big, there isn't enough support for special needs provision and classroom assistants, there are teacher shortages in some schools in key areas because of the stress of coping as teachers in conditions people on here have described as happening to themselves or their children.

Our society needs a "good enough for all" all education system to function well socially and economically for the 93% of us/our families not accessing private schools.

On GN we've spoken so often about having capacity to offer technical and pre-apprenticeship courses not just academic ones. Everyone agreed.

Surely it's obvious - in order to get this we have to pay for it. This doesn't come free.

We've discussed on GN failures in safeguarding reporting and again, staff time to really follow up on children in need. This dissent come free either.

Yes, of course the government need to chase the rich tax avoiders, that goes without saying. what makes posters think they aren't?

Much of the VAT on schools will come from people well able to afford it. So much is needed, and the VAT on schools is part of the jigsaw of trying to improve the current situation. Progress will be slow, it cant be any other way.

An in law tells me that in Germany you get a tax break capped at €5,000 towards private school fees as they correctly recognise that you are saving the state money by sending your child to a private school. Common sense approach, Labour would never apply common sense to any of their policies sadly.

I think most posters would claim they had a "common sense approach", whatever their POV, because it makes sense to them and is therefore assumed to be objective! To me, it's common sense to make sure the 93%, the future of our country, are adequately educated.

BTW, the German system is very different from ours - its not comparing like with like.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

An in law tells me that in Germany you get a tax break capped at €5,000 towards private school fees as they correctly recognise that you are saving the state money by sending your child to a private school. Common sense approach, Labour would never apply common sense to any of their policies sadly.

A lot of things happen in Germany which the UK has never wished to emulate.

growstuff

FriedGreenTomatoes2

An in law tells me that in Germany you get a tax break capped at €5,000 towards private school fees as they correctly recognise that you are saving the state money by sending your child to a private school. Common sense approach, Labour would never apply common sense to any of their policies sadly.

A lot of things happen in Germany which the UK has never wished to emulate.

I cannot believe I have read this!

What a ridiculous comment.

growstuff

FriedGreenTomatoes2

An in law tells me that in Germany you get a tax break capped at €5,000 towards private school fees as they correctly recognise that you are saving the state money by sending your child to a private school. Common sense approach, Labour would never apply common sense to any of their policies sadly.

A lot of things happen in Germany which the UK has never wished to emulate.

Such as?

growstuff
A lot of things happen in Germany which the UK has never wished to emulate.

But the things they do which are good you automatically dismiss if they reflect a criticism of the UK government.

Mollygo

growstuff
A lot of things happen in Germany which the UK has never wished to emulate.

But the things they do which are good you automatically dismiss if they reflect a criticism of the UK government.

Presumably by using the word "you" you mean "me", as you quoted my post. Where have I dismissed anything Germany does?

Sago

growstuff

FriedGreenTomatoes2

An in law tells me that in Germany you get a tax break capped at €5,000 towards private school fees as they correctly recognise that you are saving the state money by sending your child to a private school. Common sense approach, Labour would never apply common sense to any of their policies sadly.

A lot of things happen in Germany which the UK has never wished to emulate.

I cannot believe I have read this!

What a ridiculous comment.

Why is it ridiculous?

growstuff

Sago

growstuff

FriedGreenTomatoes2

An in law tells me that in Germany you get a tax break capped at €5,000 towards private school fees as they correctly recognise that you are saving the state money by sending your child to a private school. Common sense approach, Labour would never apply common sense to any of their policies sadly.

A lot of things happen in Germany which the UK has never wished to emulate.

I cannot believe I have read this!

What a ridiculous comment.

Why is it ridiculous?

Explain this, what are the things that the UK does not wish to emulate and how is it relevant to FGT’s post?

escaped

I agree Casdon that state schools will never ever have the specialist teaching expertise found in the independent sector. I don't just mean in academic subjects, but in Sport, Music, Art, Drama etc. It also needs specialist facilities to take children with exceptional talents to the highest level, and this requires real estate and state of the art premises. Most parents at private schools won't want to make their children poorer in their sporting and cultural life, so they will pay more knowing that their children are receiving the best of the best that can never be equalled by a state school.

They used to have some of that expertise when I was young. When I went to school in Dorchester the Dolmetch Family performed at my grammar school. We also had a theatrical group who performed Amahl and the Night Visitor at Christmas time. When I lived in Essex there was a special train that took many school children to Stratford for a Shakespeare matinee. When I was in the 6th form we went to a performance of a Marlowe play in London (I forget which). More recently although probably 20 years year ago a friend who taught in the local comprehensive got us tickets for Chicago as part of the school trip. We had seats in the 3rd row of the stalls. one of the teachers was the mother of the lead female. It as great. So these trips used to happen. Do they now (in the state sector)?

At my GCs primary school this term, year 5 & 6 went to the theatre, reception class went to a large zoo, and a travelling theatre company came into the school and performed a pantomime for all years.

Dinahmo these things are fairly regular at the two state primaries in my road.

Growstuff, since this particular comment was about the good things Germany did about education, your comment was dismissive. If you don’t see it like that, then you don’t need to take the you personally either.

ronib

The real unfairness is that families who use public schools are having to pay twice as they also have to pay into a system they don’t use.
Not only that, all taxpayers pay tax continuously and not just for the years children are in school.

Being child free and so no children to educate my taxes have contributed towards their education. I could resent this but I am fully aware that the generations after me should be educated to the best standard for each child. After all they are the ones who will be paying taxes in the future to help maintain a civilized society.

I am also fully aware not all children will achieve their best potential in school - they may not be academic; they may live in a home without the financial resources to provide extra curricula activities.

Back in the early seventies we shared a flat with a young man who was currently training to be a contemporary dancer. He was educated at Eton, couldn't stand it, left aged 16 and went to Art School instead. He went on to become a successful dancer and choreographer.