Cheer up, Bridget, your lucky day is nigh!

Sago

Amongst our daughters circle of friends there are a number that have shelved the idea of a public/private school as it is now not affordable, the VAT is also on school transport and meals.
Other friends have decided to use state primary schools until age 11.

I think Labour should hold any celebration until they know what the extra burden will cost them in the state sector.

If that applies in the LEA where my DGD go to one of the comprehensive schools it could be interesting.
The two private schools in one town are very popular, as are a couple of the comprehensive schools which are already over-subscribed and pupils travel from out of catchment area to those schools because others have such a poor reputation or for other reasons.

I envisage a lot of competition for places at the popular comprehensives and unhappy parents and their children who fail to get a place.

The provision of a supply of services by a profit making company (which includes the provision of education) is a supply for tax purposes, and therefore comes under the scope of vat.
By definition, most independent schools are NOT profit making companies when they are infact charities.

Sorry, the above should be as a quote,
The provision of a supply of services by a profit making company (which includes the provision of education) is a supply for tax purposes, and therefore comes under the scope of vat.
Followed by my comment.

escaped
There is every likelihood . . . might have been made an exception. . .

I think you’re right, and I’m sure an attempt would have been made. However, if I remember correctly, not being able to pick and choose which EU rules we had to follow was one of the reasons that the concept of leaving the EU arose.
I only have experience of France and Germany, but as in the UK, the majority of schools in Europe are free, for example the majority of schools in France and Germany are run by the state and offer free education.
In France and Germany you also have the option of sending your children to fee-paying private schools.
No other European country imposes VAT on private education. The EU VAT principle of fiscal neutrality prohibits treating similar services differently for VAT purposes.

ronib

petal53 this tax might not go ahead. It’s still up in the air along with the rest of government ….. Lord Pannick has taken on the appeal at a staggering hourly rate.

It has gone ahead as of tomorrow, but if it is deemed to be illegal, the schools will have to refund the parents and recover the money from the government.
A right old mess!

No other European country imposes VAT on private education. The EU VAT principle of fiscal neutrality prohibits treating similar services differently for VAT purposes.
✔

I think VAT on private school fees is a very badly thought out change, in fact it hasn't been thought through at all for so many reasons, many of which are mentioned above. It's another vote grabbing idea which the LP knew was bound to have gained them popularity amongst a lot of people who resent the fact that they are unable to pay school fees themselves.
Everybody wants the best possible, appropriate education for their children and many parents have struggled and gone without things to pay these fees whereas others may have decided against this and for many it would be a total impossibility. IMO the concentration should be on improving state schools and the calibre of teachers. As it is the state schools, may be swamped with extra pupils when they can barely cope within their current situation. The really wealthy will continue to pay the increased school fees and we will end up with even more of a 2-tier society than we already have.

Yes, Mollygo, but the fees are nominal at say an école privée in France, and the systems can't be compared.
You could say, the UK is elite in this respect!

Allira

Sago

Amongst our daughters circle of friends there are a number that have shelved the idea of a public/private school as it is now not affordable, the VAT is also on school transport and meals.
Other friends have decided to use state primary schools until age 11.

I think Labour should hold any celebration until they know what the extra burden will cost them in the state sector.

If that applies in the LEA where my DGD go to one of the comprehensive schools it could be interesting.
The two private schools in one town are very popular, as are a couple of the comprehensive schools which are already over-subscribed and pupils travel from out of catchment area to those schools because others have such a poor reputation or for other reasons.

I envisage a lot of competition for places at the popular comprehensives and unhappy parents and their children who fail to get a place.

No different from the current situation.

escaped

ronib

petal53 this tax might not go ahead. It’s still up in the air along with the rest of government ….. Lord Pannick has taken on the appeal at a staggering hourly rate.

It has gone ahead as of tomorrow, but if it is deemed to be illegal, the schools will have to refund the parents and recover the money from the government.
A right old mess!

.....^the human right to education means in effect, a right of access to education; no state may lawfully take steps that will inhibit that access. The question for any appeal to the Court would be, does applying VAT to private school fees amount to the state inhibiting and/or restricting access to education, thereby acting in breach of the ECHR.^

It should prove interesting.

My DD works at a posh prep school, there was an increase in numbers doing the entrance exam this year. So the idea that hordes of Tarquins and Jemimas are going to be barging their way into those awful rough state schools is a bit previous.
I used to work at a posh independent school. The sixth formers had better cars than the staff. Some kids came to school in chauffeur driven Bentleys. One parent landed a helicopter on the school field to pick up her child. The tiny violins are well and truly polished.

escaped

Yes, Mollygo, but the fees are nominal at say an école privée in France, and the systems can't be compared.
You could say, the UK is elite in this respect!

Not the private schools in France that I experienced. And there was still no VAT.

veganstock doesn’t sound as if you had your heart in your job? Did you not notice the pupils whose parents drove old bangers? Were they invisible?

ronib I loved my job there. No old bangers there apart from staff vehicles.

There's a bus here for children who go to the private schools in another town.
They do have to pay, of course but then so do my DGC have to pay for the bus to their state school and college.

vegansrock well I have known parents with three children going through in top prep schools drive very dubious cars. In fact, one family waited years before buying a proper car. It does happen. Three children at £45k with 20 per cent VAT is completely unaffordable now!

Mollygo

escaped

Yes, Mollygo, but the fees are nominal at say an école privée in France, and the systems can't be compared.
You could say, the UK is elite in this respect!

Not the private schools in France that I experienced. And there was still no VAT.

It depends whether they are sous or hors contrat. Private schools sous contrat cost on average of 400 euros a year at primary level. They benefit from government aid.
I don’t know enough about the other type.

ronin £45k would be unaffordable for most people, so those who can’t afford the extra 20% will join the vast majority.

All these predictions of huge numbers leaving and swamped state schools, and there isn't yet any evidence number wise at all.

Where are the press articles that point in this direction? I can find none - I've checked all the major papers front pages.

All I see on every GN thread regarding private education is

most cannot afford it, those that use private education are rich and can afford to, so it’s no big deal

I look at it differently, by not using the state education system they are saving the state money.

It really does come across as the cliched politics of envy

Surely most parents made their decisions, especially for GCSE students, at the beginning of the school year in September, which we do have figures for?

vegansrock you must be aware of companies who help plan for school fees? A lump sum donation from willing grandparents plus monthly or annual payments spread over 18 years in the past made a mind boggling amount almost affordable! I guess these companies are still in business but to add 20 percent on £135k (for 3) - £27k is a bit of a stretch.

ronib yes I suspect those companies are doing good business. Some will say they can’t afford it any longer, others will scrabble around to pay the extra and others won’t notice an extra £20 out of their pockets. Twas ever thus.

GrannyGravy13

All I see on every GN thread regarding private education is

most cannot afford it, those that use private education are rich and can afford to, so it’s no big deal

I look at it differently, by not using the state education system they are saving the state money.

It really does come across as the cliched ^politics of envy^

Several people I know who sent their children to private school were teachers in the state sector.
DS's maths teacher said she only taught at the comprehensive school so that she could afford to send her own DD to private school. She was a hopeless teacher too.

My GC have been to two different local primary schools. At the first there was a special unit for Autistic children and this seemed to absort any spare cash available within the school. My GC were adopted almost four years ago and have special funding to help with any needs they may have, but when my daughter requested help with maths for the oldest one it was only very grudgingly provided, with help coming from a teacher who said she wasn't very good at maths herself and could only help GD to "get by" at best. For this and other reasons (including bullying) she eventually took them out of the school.
The new school is an entirely different kettle of fish. There are many children for whom English is a second language, some of whom are new to the country. There is no special Autism unit and there seem to be quite a few autistic children with varying needs in the mainstream classes. Most of them have one-to-one helpers, and when we first went to see the school they told us that all the children in the school are continuously assessed and given help if necessary.
We've seen a miraculous change in my GD (9), her reading age has increased to 12 years from 6 years, in two years. Her maths and her confidence have also dramatically improved.
The school clearly makes the most of every penny that they receive and I'm convinced that every child there will achieve as much as they can.
Whilst I'm quite sure there are Autistic children for whom a special school is the best solution, there are certainly many for whom a well-managed mainstream school can work.