Cheer up, Bridget, your lucky day is nigh!

Wyllow3

I think that post by vegansrock was part spoof designed to get a reaction,

- which it did.

Its a caricature straight from the very "elite" schools beloved of many cartoons

Some Gransnetters may have DGC with those names.

Another name was used recently in a derisory way which is the name of someone in my family.

Just as bad, imo, as calling entitled women Karens or rather snobbish men Waynes. Unfair and unkind.

I know lovely Karen's and do know a Wayne (although he is quite unique).

nanna8

I am surprised so few go to private schools in the UK. I think here it is rising and is around 38 %. In some areas almost all the children attend private schools.Various reasons, some connected with faith, some because the state schools aren’t very good in that area. Parents should have a choice. They all pay taxes and if they choose to pay over and above and are able to, what’s the problem ? One of my family lives in the bush and the schools nearby are not the best so she is scrimping and saving and sending her 3 children to the local Catholic school. I’m proud of her. She is doing what is best for her family and making sacrifices.
S

The Catholic schools in Australia are subsidised but the fees have gone up recently I think. Where the local State school is not good they are an alternative if parents can afford it. They're not as expensive as private schools here.

I'm not sure about the fees at Anglican schools, and the only one I know is excellent.

Many in Blair's cabinet and their advisors, lawyers etc sent their kids to schools like Westminster and St Paul's. Indeed one or two are now grown up and flourishing amongst the new clutch of Labour MPs in safe seats. No doubt they are earnest in the cause to ensure other people's children don't receive the same opportunities as themselves. To be fair - Blair, Falconer, Thornbury and their like have never had a problem squaring their multi millionaire wealth with their socialist principles. The mantra seems to go - socialism is great - but generally something better applied to other people.

No other country in Europe taxes education in this way. Greece tried it 10+ years ago and it was a disaster.

Labour don't like private education because it is "elitist", this makes it even more so.
It's socialism at its most vindictive.

In my opinion.

I think that post by vegansrock was part spoof designed to get a reaction,

- which it did.

Its a caricature straight from the very "elite" schools beloved of many cartoons

I am surprised so few go to private schools in the UK. I think here it is rising and is around 38 %. In some areas almost all the children attend private schools.Various reasons, some connected with faith, some because the state schools aren’t very good in that area. Parents should have a choice. They all pay taxes and if they choose to pay over and above and are able to, what’s the problem ? One of my family lives in the bush and the schools nearby are not the best so she is scrimping and saving and sending her 3 children to the local Catholic school. I’m proud of her. She is doing what is best for her family and making sacrifices.
S

The politics of envy, I rest my case.
I agree Sago. The post you quoted there has some very unpleasant thoughts. Not directed at the school, nor even at the parents, but attacking the very children themselves in all this. They have done nothing wrong, even down to the names some of them possess. Also, how they travel to and from school is not decided by them, so why mention it?
They don't all bulldoze their way into places as described. If nothing else, a private education teaches manners and appropriate behaviour and most of the pupils are polite, courteous children.
Leave posts about them out of it!

vegansrock

My DD works at a posh prep school, there was an increase in numbers doing the entrance exam this year. So the idea that hordes of Tarquins and Jemimas are going to be barging their way into those awful rough state schools is a bit previous.
I used to work at a posh independent school. The sixth formers had better cars than the staff. Some kids came to school in chauffeur driven Bentleys. One parent landed a helicopter on the school field to pick up her child. The tiny violins are well and truly polished.

The politics of envy, I rest my case.

Back in the late 50s in my area if a pupil achieved good results at a secondary modern school at the end of 3rd year when they would be leaving school they were offered a place at a grammar school to complete studies up to 6th year. Yes the 11+ did seem brutal but if you had potential it was recognised, and the system accommodated that.

I am in favour of parental choice and would prefer a voucher system which could be used in either the State or private sector since you ask … that would be fair Doodledog

Yes, the tax system needs to be reassessed so that it is fairer, I agree. Not all children in either system are from families where both parents contribute.

I have no problem with the fact that the basic assumption is that everyone pays to educate all children though, or that this includes those who have no children of their own, and those who opt out of the state education system. I can’t think of a way to make things fairer - in a Pay As You Go system there would be children who had no education at all. Is that what you are advocating?

The real unfairness is that families who use public schools are having to pay twice as they also have to pay into a system they don’t use.
Not only that, all taxpayers pay tax continuously and not just for the years children are in school.

I was one year old in 1960. Maybe the grammar school system worked well then, but by the 70s it didn’t - or not where I lived.

Regardless, we are talking about private schools, and however much they may have in common with state grammar’s inasmuch as they allow a small number of children to get a better crack of the whip than the majority, they are unfair and shouldn’t be propped up by those who have to work and pay into a system that others opt out of.

I passed the 11 plus in 1960, and went to an all girls grammar school. My best friend didn’t, but went to the local junior secondary school where she completed fourth year, and sat and passed O Levels which then allowed her entry to fifth year at the grammar school at which I was a pupil. So, failing the 11 Plus wasn’t necessarily the end of further education. This was in Scotland. I’m not sure if this was possible within the English system.

Wyllow3

Parents who want their children to either get higher levels of support in academic subjects or do music, dance, art, drama can do it without paying for full-time private education.

Tutors, clubs and lessons, holiday schools are well within the reach of those who can't quite afford private education anymore.

And are being encouraged to do that, by it being made more difficult to pay for private education. Which has made some people very happy, probably including those with second homes or other advantages that they wouldn’t willingly give up.

Parents who want their children to either get higher levels of support in academic subjects or do music, dance, art, drama can do it without paying for full-time private education.

Tutors, clubs and lessons, holiday schools are well within the reach of those who can't quite afford private education anymore.

Allira

I suppose there were no breakfast clubs or after-school clubs when mine were young so that is a new and welcome concept.

There were no breakfast clubs for mine, so I and others set them up. We all worked but managed to find time to volunteer around it somehow.

The notion that others should provide is alien to me, and I just don't understand why others expect to have things provided all the time.

I suppose there were no breakfast clubs or after-school clubs when mine were young so that is a new and welcome concept.

Of course it matters, but as everyone has said, all things will never be equal.
Just pay tax.

Allira

^But what about the parents who couldn’t have afforded to drive 15 miles to take their child to another school even if the ed psych said they should?^
Or would not have been able to get to work on time themselves if they did.
A 30 mile round trip twice a day?

It doesn’t evidently matter, as long as you put the cost of private schools up.

Allira

^But what about the parents who couldn’t have afforded to drive 15 miles to take their child to another school even if the ed psych said they should?^
Or would not have been able to get to work on time themselves if they did.
A 30 mile round trip twice a day?

Initially I shared the driving with my husband, but after he died, I dropped my son off to breakfast club on my way to work at 8.00, and picked him up from after school club or my childminder at 6pm. It was challenging, but it was the right thing for him.

I agree Casdon that state schools will never ever have the specialist teaching expertise found in the independent sector. I don't just mean in academic subjects, but in Sport, Music, Art, Drama etc. It also needs specialist facilities to take children with exceptional talents to the highest level, and this requires real estate and state of the art premises. Most parents at private schools won't want to make their children poorer in their sporting and cultural life, so they will pay more knowing that their children are receiving the best of the best that can never be equalled by a state school.

But what about the parents who couldn’t have afforded to drive 15 miles to take their child to another school even if the ed psych said they should?
Or would not have been able to get to work on time themselves if they did.
A 30 mile round trip twice a day?

GrannyGravy13

Casdon I mostly agree with your post.

I totally agree with choice, and that includes private education.

As a free country we shouldn’t remove things due to some not being able to afford or want them.

It is a fact of life that we all should have the ability to improve our lot and then live within our means

All being equal is a communist pipe dream, totally unworkable and untrue.

A free country should expect all its adult citizens to pay tax and organise the proceeds of that tax take so that everyone who pays in gets out what is appropriate for their needs, regardless of their means.

Some getting more than others out whilst paying less in is a pipe dream based on elitism and the notion that some should work to pay for others to get a free ride.

Luckily we now have a government who agrees that this is unfair and is putting a stop to the tax breaks of the few in favour of fairnesss for the many. Long may it continue.

I acknowledged that in my post though Mollygo, I specifically said that I knew I was privileged and not everybody would be in the same position? In a case similar to mine, additional funding would be a solution to allow all children who needed it to access a free bus to the alternative school that could meet their child’s needs. It would still not be used by every child who needed it though, of course.