"lf Farage succeeds in destroying the Torieswe are doomed to perpetual Left-wing rule" (Telegraph headline)

Can’t even think that far ahead! I’ll just take each day at a time and see where that takes us all.

I look forward to the "left wing rule" beginning. When is it supposed to start?

Ilovecheese

I look forward to the "left wing rule" beginning. When is it supposed to start?

Me too!!! Tory rag scaremong!

I am disappointed to see Labour pursue Tribal grievances:

Hit the Pensioners (Usually Tory) with removal of WFA.

Hit the Private Schools .

Hit the Farmers - usually County and Tory.

I don't think it's anything to do with "Tribal Grievances" in some kind of revenge way as you suggest. Far more complicated.

So is the Telegraph now backing Farage?

Boz

I am disappointed to see Labour pursue Tribal grievances:

Hit the Pensioners (Usually Tory) with removal of WFA.

Hit the Private Schools .

Hit the Farmers - usually County and Tory.

Where would you suggest they get the funds needed to put the country back on its feet?

Notagranyet24

Boz

I am disappointed to see Labour pursue Tribal grievances:

Hit the Pensioners (Usually Tory) with removal of WFA.

Hit the Private Schools .

Hit the Farmers - usually County and Tory.

Where would you suggest they get the funds needed to put the country back on its feet?

Well.

They could borrow the funds from the Bank of England (a bank which the government just happens to own) at a low rate of interest for an indefinite length of time.

As the BoE is well used to creating money out of thin air for various governments (for the GFC, for holding up the value of the £ after Brexit vote and to finance the covid pandemic) I can't see it being a problem.

Then the money spent on righting all our wrongs will create lots of jobs, sustain lots of businesses and enhance direct and indirect tax revenue.

Will they do that? of course not...

? Inflation

The Times reported the opposite yesterday.

Whitewavemark2

? Inflation

Only if there is nothing for the government to spend its 'overdraft' on. As there is clearly masses on which it could be spent I wouldn't have any worries about inflation.

I might be a bit worried about effective government procurement, e.g contractors making inflated charges. But that would be a problem wherever the money came from.

I haven't quite worked out how Biden financed his Inflation Reduction Act, but spending extra money into the US economy was certainly successful...

Yes that’s right, but not as some suggest that the pot is bottomless. That would cause inflationary headaches.

I read that the outlook for growth is improving.

“A majority of UK businesses expect a positive start to 2025, according to two economic confidence surveys that show managers planning for growth after a difficult period.
About 70% of UK businesses expect their turnover to increase over the next year, up from 62% in December 2023. Meanwhile, 73% are confident of greater profitability, according to research from the high street bank Lloyds.

Hann-Ju Ho, a senior economist at Lloyds, said: “It is exciting to see that businesses have ambitious plans for next year and are confident of growth. Overall, businesses have responded well to the changing external environment. While the economic outlook has been challenging, the steps firms are taking to grow should put them in a strong position for success in 2025.”
The survey by Lloyds, which polls 1,200 businesses monthly and aims to provide early signals on UK economic trends, was mirrored by research into expectations in the financial sector, a key driver of the economy. Seven in 10 financial services bosses said they were confident the government’s plans would drive growth and competitiveness in the sector during 2025, according to data collated by the accounting group KPMG.”

Guardian.

Boz

I am disappointed to see Labour pursue Tribal grievances:

Hit the Pensioners (Usually Tory) with removal of WFA.

Hit the Private Schools .

Hit the Farmers - usually County and Tory.

I agree with those 3 policies, loads of people don't need the WFA, but maybe they should have stopped it at those whose income is in the higher tax bracket. But it does stop the right wing press saying Labour spend too much on benefits.

It's way over time when private schools should pay their way. People pay £40k for Eton, it's a great idea for that VAT to go to state schools. Countries that don't have private schools have great state schools so I'm told.

I think it's great that farmers will pay some inheritance tax, independent experts say it will only be 6-700 a year max. Round here we have various toffs hugely wealthy & paying little tax and imposing large housing estates on us which the locals don't want to earn themselves vast sums from companies that are based in tax havens.

It'll democratise the country if farmers sell off some land and stop it fetching inflated prices that keep out those who'd like to farm.

I love that Labour have stopped the Rights of Way grab the Tories planned, we should have access to the country via rights of way

Whitewavemark2

Yes that’s right, but not as some suggest that the pot is bottomless. That would cause inflationary headaches.

Nobody who understands how sovereign currency financing works suggests that the pit is bottomless.

I’m not saying that it does, because isn’t it a description of what happens to money flow and not a full blown economic theory?

It has nothing to say about much global economic activity, which is why I find it so unsatisfactory.

One major reason I find it wanting is that it doesn’t take into account the globalisation of money, and the ability of major players, like international hedge funds, global bond markets and powerful currencies like the dollar to influence sovereign currencies.

I think that it needs to speak more to what sovereign currencies can do within a global market, rather than focusing on a state as an entity. So as an example, yes I think it certainly speaks to government and public spending through its bank. But I dont see that private capital from outside of this system is very well accounted for. Musk is a recent example where private capital from outside of the U.K. governments influence is being introduced- and this is happening all the time by different players outside of any government influence.

Sorry to go on. I will stop now😊

So often it is not what you do, but the way that you do it.

And this is the problem with this government. They act first and think later. The removal of WFA was a disaster because it came out of the blue, without preparation or thought, and while better off pensioners can just shrug the loss of it off, those whose living standards, health and peace of mind depended on it, those whose income is just above pension credit level suddenly had a significant tranche of their income taken away, right at the start of winter, when it was most needed. Those affected had no chance to plan or prepare for less money for heating this winter.

The same with the tax on agricultural assets. Yes, there was good reason to remove it from the wealthiest estate owners, who will have already taken avoidance measures, but for small farm estates, or even some tenant farmers, the result could be disastrous, Breaking up small farms into unviably small parcels of land will do nothing to help new entrants into farming. The land will be sold to adjacent big estates or for housing - and how will that help new entrants into agriculture - assuming there are many.

The average age of farmers in the UK is 60, and this is not a British phenomena. From Kenya to Japan, the average age of farmers is around 60. The majority of young people, even in rural area do not want to work in agriculture. This new measure exacerbate the situation

Another case of act first, think later.

I find Spabbygirls callous dismissal of all those most seriously affected by the loss of the WFA and the agricultural assets tax quite troubling. Essentially she is saying 'I do not give a toss about the poor, as long as we tax the rich' Is this how Labour thinks? They should have told us.

Monica, I think it’s a case of getting the most controversial plans implemented at the beginning of the term. They haven’t got the implementation right in a number of elements, but that’s a different issue to act first think later, because the plans are deliberate and are happening.

I’m with spabbygirl in that I accept the decisions on WFA, IH and private schools. I do wonder where someone like Alistair Campbell is to front these kind of policies which are bound to inflame the Mail and Telegraph, no analysis just Outrage.

I’m a long term Labour voter but - left wing???? Not according to the left activists in my CLP 😉

I think that Labour performance so far has been like the curates egg, and where it has performed badly the charge in my view is at Reeves door.

She appears to have all the subtlety of a blacksmiths hammer, and her biggest mistake was the way she handled the announcements of what she should have known were going to be very unpopular, and used by the right wing media.

That is not to say that I disagree with her entirely. I do think the universality of WFA was ridiculous, and I also think that the huge tax breaks that wealthy parents got from choosing to privately educate their children was an anomaly that needed sorting out.

With regard to inheritance tax and farmers. Most farms will be unaffected by the changes, and those that are will still be treated significantly more generously than the rest of us, and indeed more generously treated than farmers in the past. A number of strategies are open to farming businesses to avoid inheritance tax, and I’m quite sure that these will be fully exploited.

But on balance, I am reasonably satisfied with labours performance to date, however my impatience at wanting to see improvements within a few months of taking office is a bit immature I will admit, but I do realise that the enormous hill we have to climb will take time.

Telegraph writing hyperbole at its best: we are all "doomed".

Apart from the universal removal of WFA, given Labour's mission was to grow the economy the hike in employer's NI is surely going to prove counter productive to that, it makes no sense in the context of growth. Companies are going to cut back on recruitment, training programmes and investment, they already are. I imagine in the long term we will see a hike in unemployment. In the meantime productivity is sluggish within departments of the Civil Service where swathes continue to work from home, with a mindset still entrenched in the time of Covid. I know from family members who work in the private sector many companies have moved on with an expectation of employees being in the office 3 days a week.

In spite of this government giving train drivers ridiculous increases, they still can't get some to work an extra day's overtime for £600, think of how many would literally bite the hand off their employer being offered that sort of money. Train services continue to be shambolic for commuters shorter trains people squashed in like cattle, for which they pay an extortionate amount for the privilege of travelling in dirty over crowded carriages..

I'll be interested to see whether they can turn the housing situation around, it's early days and successive governments haven't improved that situation. The ST pointed out in its housing supplement a couple of weeks ago, and it's too often ignored, that as well as landlords selling up since previous Chancellor, George Osborne did his bit to reduce properties available, since 2016 under the Tories 3 million people have been added to the population, many settling in our urban areas, in particular the south east where for every flat there are now 22 people chasing that property which poses the question can Labour make enough social housing available to assuage the demand when we have an exponential increase in our population year on year, and yes I know some of our young are leaving for Australia, but that's a trickle in comparison to the newly arrived settlers. I'm not anti immigration per se but our resources are finite and we have to be able to accommodate those who wish to settle here without the existing population feeling that their potential opportunities of acquiring a home of their own are not being jeopardised by too many people chasing too few properties, which as things stand at the moment are increasingly becoming more unaffordable. However, that seems to be a problem in many parts of the developed world.

Whitewavemark2

I think that Labour performance so far has been like the curates egg, and where it has performed badly the charge in my view is at Reeves door.

She appears to have all the subtlety of a blacksmiths hammer, and her biggest mistake was the way she handled the announcements of what she should have known were going to be very unpopular, and used by the right wing media.

That is not to say that I disagree with her entirely. I do think the universality of WFA was ridiculous, and I also think that the huge tax breaks that wealthy parents got from choosing to privately educate their children was an anomaly that needed sorting out.

With regard to inheritance tax and farmers. Most farms will be unaffected by the changes, and those that are will still be treated significantly more generously than the rest of us, and indeed more generously treated than farmers in the past. A number of strategies are open to farming businesses to avoid inheritance tax, and I’m quite sure that these will be fully exploited.

But on balance, I am reasonably satisfied with labours performance to date, however my impatience at wanting to see improvements within a few months of taking office is a bit immature I will admit, but I do realise that the enormous hill we have to climb will take time.

Yes, broadly agree. its been a summer of revelations about just how badly many public series have been run down for so long and how big the mountain is to climb.

TerriBull I was interested in your last sentence "However, that seems to be a problem in many parts of the developed world." I checked and you are right: however in Europe we are reckoned to have the greatest problems. Its like we've been sleepwalking doing little about it and now like other areas a huge issue.

If Farage succeeds in destroying the Tories we are doomed to perpetual Left-wing rule

GOOD