Who are we fighting?

ronib

I don’t understand why on a cold day in January, some shops in my local town insist on keeping the shop doors wide open because the store is too warm. When I asked why heat was being wasted, the reply was that the shop had to think of its customers.
Now I do wonder if the whole country is entirely mad?

There was a campaign a few years ago about keeping shop doors closed to keep the heat in. I followed it on twitter, when twitter was actually twitter. I wonder if it is still active. it's possible that lockdown did for it.

OTOH, talking of lockdown, perhaps it's better for our health that shop doors are left open and some fresh air circulating in the stores, seeing as covid is still circulating unchecked, is still a dangerous disease and, being most definitely airborne, is less likely to be spread in well ventilated areas (which actually applies to any airborne virus)

The problem is that the education system is skewed to university which suits the top 25% of pupils the rest are left behind they learn very little about work and earning their living when they leave school.
A large number don’t have any realistic idea how they are going to pay the rent or living as an adult, they should bring back practical skills in schools, proper Domestic Science, Woodwork, Metalwork, Electronics etc, not skim over many topics as they do today
Children need to be inspired, shown that they can achieve a practical task, if they are not academic many have no ambition to do anything.

fancythat

MaizieD

fancythat

MaizieD

escaped

fancythat

Is it Starmer that wants to get rid of Latin, and British history?

Yes.
I think he also called visits to museums and art galleries in the curriculum, highbrow pursuits and called to get rid of them too.
Silly use of vocabulary.

Good heavens! Did he really say that ? I don’t believe it. Do you have a source?

I heard snippets of a discussion on GB news.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/labours-decision-to-axe-latin-lessons-is-an-act-of-cultural-vandalism/

How many schools teach latin these days? I think it's been effectively axed for decades...

What other absurdities can the Spectator and GB News (aren't they owned/funded by the same person?) find to get their underwear knotted about, I wonder...

Nothing to stop private schools still teaching it, of course...
Nothing to stop a state school teaching it, either, if they have the resources and the will to do it.

Now, where did the nonsense about museums and art galleries come from?

So that I know for now and another time, which news sources do you reply on please, MaizieD.

The New Statesman, the Financial Tmes, the Guardian, social media (X & Bluesky), By-Line Times (various) random media pieces I see links to that look to be interesting. Nothing paywalled unless I can get round it without having to sign up for anything at all.. some blogs on economics and government, The ether...

Wyllow3

iirc in the discussions of the chance to take technical subjects not pursue purely academic subjects, I think it was taken for granted that basic subjects had to continue.

Should we be on the other thread?!

I don’t understand why on a cold day in January, some shops in my local town insist on keeping the shop doors wide open because the store is too warm. When I asked why heat was being wasted, the reply was that the shop had to think of its customers.
Now I do wonder if the whole country is entirely mad?

David49

I think Starmer is probably the most realistic PM we have had for many years, he knows that government has to find more income to pay for the services and benefits we enjoy.

The population don’t like being told they need to pay more, so his poll rating has fallen.

As far as I am concerned there are two ways to manage a budget.
Yes, get more income, but also cut costs.

I will keep mentioning on this forum, the bat tunnel and it;s like. Just as a for instance.

GNetters seemed to be happy to pay for a £100 million bat tunnel.
I most certainly am not.

There is more than one way to manage money effectively.

Perhaps the general public and GNetters are not in step with this one.

iirc in the discussions of the chance to take technical subjects not pursue purely academic subjects, I think it was taken for granted that basic subjects had to continue.

I agree with David

I'm not sure how horticulture, agriculture courses would work without Latin.There must be plenty of other subjects which require some grasp of Latin but those came to mind first

a need for more broad based courses heading towards apprenticships for the non academic pupils another

Years ago a friend used to teach mechanics, including car mechanics, at a local comprehensive school. I'm not sure f today's curriculum includes those kinds of subjects.

I'm not sure about the description non-academic pupils - the pupils would still need to take Maths and Physics plus, of course, English, to be able to take that further and gain an apprenticeship.

Should that be at the expense of a Humanity? If pupils have no interest in History, Geography or RE beyond KS3, would a technical subject be more useful?

Totally agree David👏👏👏

I think Starmer is probably the most realistic PM we have had for many years, he knows that government has to find more income to pay for the services and benefits we enjoy.

The population don’t like being told they need to pay more, so his poll rating has fallen.

I think thats right, it is a good basis, but I don't think that given the competing needs in a school curriculum Latin is a priority.

Thinking back over the GN threads that have proposed x or y should be in the curriculum

- a need for some kind of civics "how our democracy/judiciary works" is one few disagreed on -

a need for more broad based courses heading towards apprenticships for the non academic pupils another -

a need for proper careers guidance yet another -

bringing back modern language another -

proper support for special needs -

I cant honestly say Latin is more important than these.

A knowledge of Latin does form a good basis for learning some modern European languages.

My DN took French and German at university and I'm sure she hadn't learnt Latin at her comprehensive school.

escaped

Latin is a strange one.
Coming from a London comp I'd never seen a word of Latin in my life. My unconditional offer at a top university to read French and German came with the insistence that I would need twice weekly Latin lessons, given by some professor at the college. It was just me and one other student, and after half a term the professor gave up on and we on Latin.
I still managed a 2:1 without it!!

I had the same experience! I went to university from a Technical High School and although we studied two modern languages the curriculum didnt include Latin.

I was also admitted to a top university for English without Latin because in 1969 the university had accepted the need to broaden the base of their intake.

Nowadays I'd say that learning a modern European language until 16 could come before Latin.

MaizieD

fancythat

MaizieD

escaped

fancythat

Is it Starmer that wants to get rid of Latin, and British history?

Yes.
I think he also called visits to museums and art galleries in the curriculum, highbrow pursuits and called to get rid of them too.
Silly use of vocabulary.

Good heavens! Did he really say that ? I don’t believe it. Do you have a source?

I heard snippets of a discussion on GB news.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/labours-decision-to-axe-latin-lessons-is-an-act-of-cultural-vandalism/

How many schools teach latin these days? I think it's been effectively axed for decades...

What other absurdities can the Spectator and GB News (aren't they owned/funded by the same person?) find to get their underwear knotted about, I wonder...

Nothing to stop private schools still teaching it, of course...
Nothing to stop a state school teaching it, either, if they have the resources and the will to do it.

Now, where did the nonsense about museums and art galleries come from?

So that I know for now and another time, which news sources do you reply on please, MaizieD.

I should have quoted specifically escaped,

it was Fancythat that said,

"Is it Starmer that wants to get rid of Latin, and British history?"

I'm totally unclear of what he isn't "including" anymore.

Latin is a strange one.
Coming from a London comp I'd never seen a word of Latin in my life. My unconditional offer at a top university to read French and German came with the insistence that I would need twice weekly Latin lessons, given by some professor at the college. It was just me and one other student, and after half a term the professor gave up on and we on Latin.
I still managed a 2:1 without it!!

Not ludicrous, as I didn't say anything about "cancelling" British History, just choosing not to include certain aspects in the curriculum.
So I was misinterpreted.

fancythat

MaizieD

escaped

fancythat

Is it Starmer that wants to get rid of Latin, and British history?

Yes.
I think he also called visits to museums and art galleries in the curriculum, highbrow pursuits and called to get rid of them too.
Silly use of vocabulary.

Good heavens! Did he really say that ? I don’t believe it. Do you have a source?

I heard snippets of a discussion on GB news.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/labours-decision-to-axe-latin-lessons-is-an-act-of-cultural-vandalism/

How many schools teach latin these days? I think it's been effectively axed for decades...

What other absurdities can the Spectator and GB News (aren't they owned/funded by the same person?) find to get their underwear knotted about, I wonder...

Nothing to stop private schools still teaching it, of course...
Nothing to stop a state school teaching it, either, if they have the resources and the will to do it.

Now, where did the nonsense about museums and art galleries come from?

I'd like correct full sources on museums etc because I read that he wasn't suggesting discontinuing them but including a broader cultural base for arts/culture visits Beware of part-quotes that don't include this.

As for saying this :Cancels British History" well thats just ludicrous, what do you think children learn in schools?

Think the best thing Starmer could do at some point is have a reshuffle and get rid of Rachel Reeves

I don't agree loopyloo. And there you have democracy and our right to freedom of expression (not speech. We are not, thank heavens, the USA.)

I am aware that it takes time to bring about the changes we wanted and need. Those with the attention span of a gnat, egged on and manipulated by our right wing press, talk as if all changes can be made much more quickly than is realistically possible. Changes take time. Rachel Reeves was laying the foundation and taking steps towards a sound economy. Neither the far-right, right or far-left will agree. Not because she is wrong but because they have nothing to offer except the Trussanomics of either the left or right.

Most people are factually better off this winter than last winter but haven't felt it yet and are constantly being told the opposite is true (a bit like Brexit).

The polls tell us that people feel "Labour lacks a coherent story". I can agree with that. However, I do have both a life and patience and am happy to see that come together next year as the Bills go through Parliament and changes start to take shape in 2026/2027. Thankfully this is shorter than the Tories had trashing the economy.

Unfortunately for politicians, sound bites are what get picked up and remembered. By trying to be too relevant with speech they run the risk of every Tom, Dick and Harry picking up the wrong end of the stick.
(If you speak all scholarly and cultivated it apparently turns people off.)

fancythat

If you google, GB news getting rid of Latin, several articles pop up.

😯

Stop him, someone, before he crosses the Rubicon!

Now do tell me who exactly doesn't know that?

Know what exactly?

As you have rightly pointed out, PoliticsNerd, The exact meaning can vary depending on the context in which it is used

So to which context is Sir Keir referring and what exactly does he mean?

It's unclear, it's just another soundbite such as politicians and others have used.

"Britons - Your Country Needs You!"

MaizieD

escaped

fancythat

Is it Starmer that wants to get rid of Latin, and British history?

Yes.
I think he also called visits to museums and art galleries in the curriculum, highbrow pursuits and called to get rid of them too.
Silly use of vocabulary.

Good heavens! Did he really say that ? I don’t believe it. Do you have a source?

It was in The Times, very recently I think. Something to do with not mentioning skiing trips too in the classroom because that showed "middle class bias."
All to do with the educational review being considered. I'd need to delve back.

I don't see how you can urge people to "fight for Britain" if you aren't prepared to let them learn about all aspects of our rich heritage and history.