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Social Care Reform and help got the elderly

(137 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Fri 03-Jan-25 06:46:51

“Ministers are to launch a historic independent commission to reform adult social care, as they warn older people could be left without vital help unless a national consensus is reached on fixing a “failing” system.
The taskforce, to be led by the crossbench peer Louise Casey, will be charged with developing plans for a new national care service, a Labour manifesto pledge, in the biggest shake-up to social care in England in decades. Millions of pounds in funding to improve and adapt homes for older and disabled people and help them stay out of hospital are also being announced today, as part of a wider package of support.

Writing in the Guardian, Wes Streeting said: “It will take time, but Casey’s work will finally grasp this nettle and set our country on the path to building a national care service that meets the urgent need of our generation, guarantees quality care to all who need it, and lasts long into the future, no matter which government is in power.”

Guardian

Notagranyet24 Sat 04-Jan-25 13:35:54

Granny23

No mention so far on this thread of the Free Social Care which is provided by the Scottish Government - see -
www.gov.scot/policies/social-care/national-care-service/
I am not saying that the system is perfect but given the pressure on the Scottish Government's budget, it IS is up and running and giving support to the elderly and disabled and their families.

Nothing is free except the air we breathe, there's always a cost even if it's hidden. The question is who has collected the money and how is it distributed and who decides what's fair.
Thanks doodledog completely agree.

Grantanow Sat 04-Jan-25 13:06:15

I doubt the Tories would do any better Notagranyet24, now or later. The Buffoon Johnson claimed to have fixed social care! I think social care is too hot to handle for any Party and it's very unlikely it would be free for all at the point of delivery.

GrannyGravy13 Sat 04-Jan-25 11:15:32

PoliticsNerd

*RosiesMaw2*. An increase in Employers' National Insurance (NI) contributions does raise concerns about rising labour costs and potential negative impacts on employment.

However, there can also be positive changes in the jobs market due to this shift. Looking at both sides will give a clear view rather than the panic the right-wing media tries (and, it seems succeeds) to create.

What positive changes in the jobs market do you envisage the new NI rates and lowering of eligibility starting point will bring when implemented this April?

Doodledog Sat 04-Jan-25 10:15:35

My Scottish friend would disagree there. She says that whilst care is free it is all but impossible to get. Maybe that is area-dependent, but it is her experience - she has an elderly and infirm mother.

Granny23 Sat 04-Jan-25 10:12:06

No mention so far on this thread of the Free Social Care which is provided by the Scottish Government - see -
www.gov.scot/policies/social-care/national-care-service/
I am not saying that the system is perfect but given the pressure on the Scottish Government's budget, it IS is up and running and giving support to the elderly and disabled and their families.

Doodledog Sat 04-Jan-25 10:11:02

Every time the government tries to improve things the moaners come out in force. It must be hard work being so relentlessly negative.

Yes, care will cost money, but it already does! It doesn’t do so fairly though, so some have to spend all their money and sell their houses to subsidise those without the means to pay.

Many people of all political stripes disagree with that- it is a major fear for older people - and if a way can be found to charge everyone a little bit along the way so nobody has to be pauperised if the lottery if life means they need social care in old age, then I’m keen for that to happen. I’d like to see geographical unfairness ruled out, too. As it stands, notional ‘caps’ on spending have all been finite, so someone whose house has a postcode premium would still have lots left over after paying up to the cap, but someone who has worked just as hard in another area loses everything. Maybe charging a maximum of X% of an estate would be more equitable?

As it stands, the system allows some to go through life with a free ride, and others are forced to pick up the tab - that has to stop somehow, or it will be too expensive for the ever-shrinking number of ‘economically active’ to cover. Obviously there are those who can’t pay for various reasons, but I’m sure the investigators will have thought of that and be looking at ways to mitigate it.

Paying NI after pension age is a good idea, but again, I’d rather see the burden be spread, so those who work don’t have to fork out for those who don’t, as usual. Also, not all people of pension age are able to work - the differential levels of heath and abilities in older people is the starting point for all of this, and can’t be ignored. Plus, we should all be able to put our feet up for a few years after decades of working. Or maybe we can’t (collectively) afford that? Again, that’s why we need a thorough investigation.

A big problem will be what to do with people like most of us here - those in older age who might have existing conditions but not enough money to plug the gap between insurance and PAYG. I wouldn’t get insurance as things stand, but I am far from unusual in that, so again, I expect the commission to look for ways around it. I guess it will mean one of two basic models - the new system (whatever it turns out to be) is for people under a certain age, so there is time to get funding in place before it starts, or it starts off being inclusive but needs a huge boost of public money. If it’s the latter, which I hope for, for obvious reasons, young people will need to be convinced that they should shoulder that burden, which after so much propaganda about generational inequality could be difficult to pull off. Who would want to pay a lot of extra tax to fund someone who begrudges them a takeaway coffee or ‘the latest phone’? grin.

I am pleased that this is cross-party. I think that is the only way to prevent social care from becoming a political football, with huge amounts of money being spent on initiatives that an incoming government scraps. I think that will be difficult to achieve, however, as we know that Reform doesn’t believe in publicly-funded healthcare, never mind social care, and how that can be factored into a compassionate system is beyond me. But that’s why a commission is needed, rather than a rush to implement an ‘oven ready deal’ that has no substance or credibility.

Anyway, I am pleased with this news. I have no problem with paying in to get out, but recognise that for people of my age (65) it is probably too late to pay my share on an insurance basis, so hope that younger people can be persuaded to do it instead.

PoliticsNerd Sat 04-Jan-25 09:55:46

I think your politics still override the need to plan winterwhite, e.g., Getting the British public to accept that the hallmark of a civilised society is how it treats its old and its sick and thus support the cost.

Politics don't make things happen, they just set the framework for making the plans. That has been done. It's now time to review and implement the plans.

I do agreed the squabbling over political minutiae will continue but we don't have to involve ourselves in it - or we may. It is a choice.

mae13 Sat 04-Jan-25 09:45:40

Lathyrus3

I’d welcome some kind of insurance scheme. Even now, on my pension, I’d prefer to pay a monthly amount knowing that quality care would be there if I needed it.

At the moment I’m afraid to spend money in case I need it in the future and find myself doing calculations about how many weeks I could afford before the savings and the house sale ran out.

Not a fan of insurance - it's a dirty word in my book. At the first whiff of any kind of mandatory health insurance scheme the vultures will descend in droves.

PoliticsNerd Sat 04-Jan-25 09:44:00

RosiesMaw2. An increase in Employers' National Insurance (NI) contributions does raise concerns about rising labour costs and potential negative impacts on employment.

However, there can also be positive changes in the jobs market due to this shift. Looking at both sides will give a clear view rather than the panic the right-wing media tries (and, it seems succeeds) to create.

Notagranyet24 Sat 04-Jan-25 09:41:49

Grantanow

Of course social care is going to cost money raised from taxes and the main argument will be about the cut off point for those able to contribute but I am disappointed that Labour, having had 14 years to plan, can only kick the can down the road. Streeting was an effective Opposition MP but is clearly a lightweight when pressing for funds from the Treasury for social care.

And the Tory plans for when they get back into power are??????

ronib Sat 04-Jan-25 09:28:45

M0nica I was very heartened to hear that an Anglican church near Shrewsbury gave a full Christmas meal, a present and entertainment to a group of people on Christmas Day. My own church is engaging more in bringing the community together too. It can be done and is a worthwhile mission too. Don’t be so dismissive. I much prefer the church to be involved than this excuse for a government.
Making your own plan is essential seems to me. Best done in advance.

Grantanow Sat 04-Jan-25 09:24:04

Of course social care is going to cost money raised from taxes and the main argument will be about the cut off point for those able to contribute but I am disappointed that Labour, having had 14 years to plan, can only kick the can down the road. Streeting was an effective Opposition MP but is clearly a lightweight when pressing for funds from the Treasury for social care.

maddyone Sat 04-Jan-25 09:17:12

I agree that exercise is necessary and advisable, but many people who need care are way beyond exercising independently. They may be able to take part in a chair exercise group in their care home, or even in a local hall if they’re able to get there, but many aren’t. People are living longer, but living longer brings decline in health and ability. Then people need care, and so we’re back at the initial problem of how to manage that.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 04-Jan-25 09:11:17

Cross-party talks to begin in 3 weeks.

Cross-party talks over the future of social care will begin next month as the health secretary hit back over criticism that a commission on the issue would take too long to bring change.
Wes Streeting said he wanted all parties to “agree on the direction on social care for the long term” and that the Conservatives, Liberal Democrats and Reform UK had all said they would work together on it.

"………………. part one of the Casey commission isn’t reporting in 2028 – it’s reporting next year, and it will outline what we need to do during this parliament.”.

RosiesMaw2 Sat 04-Jan-25 09:09:30

Which is why the government need to grow the economy. That means getting it working first, e.g., getting trains running and doctors doctoring
In the light of this then I wonder why have employers been soccer punched with a rise in NI taxation which has led to a reduction in staffing levels - aka fewer jobs even to the point of businesses going to the wall, reduced consumer activity, a shrinking hospitality sector (previously a strength) and overseas owned companies withdrawing production from the UK.

Casdon Sat 04-Jan-25 09:07:59

I agree with that PoliticsNerd, it’s a hard message that people don’t want to swallow, but it’s the reality.

M0nica Sat 04-Jan-25 09:05:00

ronib

I think it’s essential for physical exercise to be embedded into our way of life. Some people are very over reliant on their cars and walking is not seen as a desirable activity in my area. I believe that older people need to be more community based, and churches can play a role in this.
Even with good daily care, it’s still a pretty miserable life for the elderly to be placed securely in a comfortable armchair all day until an early bedtime. However yesterday I had a great chat with a volunteer (approaching 90) in a charity shop who was thriving on being part of the community. We shouldn’t wait for the government to sort this mess out - people might be old but don’t expect government to wave a magic wand 3 years into the future. Try to work out your own plan! It’s going to be a lot better than anything government suggests.

I am amused by this reference to the churches. Have you been to church recently? Seen how small the congregtaion is?

While in some cities there are a few churches with large ccongregations, get out to the majority of towns villages and 'communities' and you will find ministers serving 4 or 5 parishes, churches closed down, possibly demolished.

Without a doubt, the churches punch above their weight in providing community services, but to think they can suddenly do more and help turn things round is cloud cuckoo land.

It is easy to talk about 'making your own plan' when the older person is physically fit and in good health, but the person in the chair with carers coming it, is probably unable to get out of that chair unaided. The arthritis in their hands may mean that even making a cup of tea is beyond their capability.

The majority of lonely old people are in that situation because of disablity and frailty that makes getting out of the house difficult/impossible. That person may also have declining mental faculties, be sinking into dementia, which will soon require residential care.

As for exercise, plenty of older people walking around in our community, including me, also plenty of exercise classes - but if you are frail or disabled and cannot leave the house unaided. That puts the kybosh on walking for health or any other reason, and makes exercise classes impossible.

PoliticsNerd Sat 04-Jan-25 09:03:03

There isn't enough to go around and there isn't the willingness to share. Notagranyet24

Which is why the government need to grow the economy. That means getting it working first, e.g., getting trains running and doctors doctoring.

You cannot come from the spend end first when you inherit a wrecked economy. A majority voted that government in so presumably some of those who did so are now complaining about the time it will take to bring back services we had once grown to expect.

One thing we need to understand is that wealth is highest in the age groups 55-64 years and 65+. If we want the services those people need to stop claiming general poverty. Giving WFA to millionaires seems perverse to me.

ronib Sat 04-Jan-25 09:02:05

I think the amount each month to the user/client is around £1650 after a financial assessment has been made.

petra Sat 04-Jan-25 09:01:11

As much as I want this report to come out with workable methods, I’m afraid I can’t see it working in the long term.
By the long term I mean the time when most of us on this site will no longer be here.
We have been tinkering with the obesity problem in this country for, how long? Are these measures working? No.
This problem is costing the NHS £billions a year.
I do appreciate and understand how difficult it is to loose weight. I live with such a person who could put on a pound by eating an apple.

Casdon Sat 04-Jan-25 08:46:02

You can’t compare the costs though RosiesMaw2. If we had no train drivers at all in the UK the money saved would pay for very few social care packages. My mum has savings above the limit, and pays £12500 to Social Services a year for one carer once a day to get her up. The package ronib describes would cost £100,000 a year on that basis - for one person.

PoliticsNerd Sat 04-Jan-25 08:44:36

ronib

David49 what is a reasonable level of social care provision for an immobile person? I see a friend being cared for 4 times daily by 2 carers. 30 minutes each session. Is this enough? Is this rationed?

It will be rationed by cost if the Local Authority are paying ronib. I would guess the ceiling the Local Authority have is four half hour visits a day or equivalent. This seems to be quite common.

Notagranyet24 Sat 04-Jan-25 08:44:11

RosiesMaw2

^Yes but as post after post says, it's about the money^
It’s there for some things….
Sadly (and I had high hopes that Starmer meant what he said in his election promises) the Labour government seem to prioritise train drivers over the elderly. The money for their IMO extortionate pay rises was forthcoming quickly enough.
Another disillusionment.

Exactly, bicker, bicker, bicker, THEY GOT MONEY, WE/DIDN'T. There isn't enough to go around and there isn't the willingness to share.

Notagranyet24 Sat 04-Jan-25 08:41:59

For those with short memories
www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zsd68mn/revision/
It's a link to the revision guide for young people, Rebuilding the UK after the Second World War.

David49 Sat 04-Jan-25 08:39:34

ronib

David49 what is a reasonable level of social care provision for an immobile person? I see a friend being cared for 4 times daily by 2 carers. 30 minutes each session. Is this enough? Is this rationed?

Lucky to get 4 30min sessions a day many only get 2 15 min visits, enough, everyone is different so hard to tell. I’m thinking 4 30min visits is quite expensive, if you have to pay