The Guardian reports that Trump says all Palestinians should move out of Gaza

Babs03

Yes us too much hate I feel for anything constructive to gain traction right now.
One thing to keep in mind is that the way human beings feel remains the same regardless of religion, race, or political ideology. And just as Israelis felt hell bent upon justice for the innocents killed on Oct 7th, Palestinians feel likewise about their own dead. And the majority are not blaming Hamas for this whether we believe that or not. So this is the way it is.

Hammas are absolutely at fault and to blame and rightly need to be stopped.

However, in the same vein, so does Netanyahu, I think both Israelis and Palestinians have lost enough lives and both deserve better.

Anniebach

The violence will not stop unless the Jews can be wiped off the face of the earth. Hamas said this

This is not what many of us wish for though.

I’m not Jewish, but I’d never ever wish for this.

My own wish is for ALL terrier organisations to be wiped from the face of the earth, alongside corrupt govts, and for the rest of us human beings just allowed to live side by side in peace.

Naive and simplistic I know, but these are my feelings.

Ooops *terrorists not terrors! So sorry, now made a mockery of a very serious issue!

I hate autocorrect! I need a an amend button!

Not terror but terrier! Grrrrrrr

1948 Jews are back in their homeland, am I to believe they started invading Palestine then ?

It is the medieval mind-set of Hamas that is so awful; kidnapping, killing by decapitation together with the macho culture that denigrates women. I have no sympathy with Middle Eastern cultures that have such barbaric habits.

Well, after Mr Trump has dumped Ukraine, I suspect he'll feel emboldened to start on his plans for CenterParc Gaza, whatever the rights or wrongs of behaviours on either side, or the long term consequences for any peoples in the cross fire.
Mr T is not troubled by any such considerations.

Boz

It is the medieval mind-set of Hamas that is so awful; kidnapping, killing by decapitation together with the macho culture that denigrates women. I have no sympathy with Middle Eastern cultures that have such barbaric habits.

And with one sweeping sentence, you ignore thousands of years of many different regions, rich in different cultures and different religions, including christianity, based on the evidence of terrorists.

As if the West were naturally superior and morally without serious issues.

We are speaking of Israel, Palestine, not the West , well Ireland I suppose

Anniebach

1948 Jews are back in their homeland, am I to believe they started invading Palestine then ?

Annie Wikipedia has a long and very detailed article on "the international phase of the 1948 Palestine war." at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War
Below is a small quote from it.
"Yishuv (the name for the community of Jews residing in Palestine prior to the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948)

Yishuv's aims evolved during the war. Mobilisation for a total war was organised. Initially, the aim was "simple and modest": to survive the assaults of the Palestinian Arabs and the Arab states. "The Zionist leaders deeply, genuinely, feared a Middle Eastern reenactment of the Holocaust, which had just ended; the Arabs' public rhetoric reinforced these fears". As the war progressed, the aim of expanding the Jewish state beyond the UN partition borders appeared: first to incorporate clusters of isolated Jewish settlements and later to add more territories to the state and give it defensible borders. A third and further aim that emerged among the political and military leaders after four or five months was to "reduce the size of Israel's prospective large and hostile Arab minority, seen as a potential powerful fifth column, by belligerency and expulsion".

According to research by Shay Hazkani, Ben-Gurion and segments of the religious Zionist leadership drew parallels between the war and the biblical wars of extermination, and states this was not a fringe position. IDF indoctrination pamphlets were distributed to recruits instructing them that God “demands a revenge of extermination without mercy to whoever tries to hurt us for no reason.”.

Plan Dalet, or Plan D, (Hebrew: תוכנית ד', Tokhnit dalet) was a plan worked out by the Haganah, a Jewish paramilitary group and the forerunner of the Israel Defense Forces, in autumn 1947 to spring 1948, which was sent to Haganah units in early March 1948. The intent of Plan Dalet is subject to much controversy, with historians on the one extreme asserting that it was entirely defensive, and historians on the other extreme asserting that the plan aimed at maximum conquest and expulsion of the Palestinians. According to Walid Khalidi and Ilan Pappé, its purpose was to conquer as much of Palestine and to expel as many Palestinians as possible, though according to Benny Morris there was no such intent. In his book The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, Pappé asserts that Plan Dalet was a "blueprint for ethnic cleansing" with the aim of reducing both rural and urban areas of Palestine."

This was just before the founding of the modern State of Israel in 1948.

Surely one doesn’t have to read to understand the fear for Jews
1948, films from the Holocaust were in cinemas, such understanding here for Palestinian Muslims Little for Jews ,

Anniebach

1948 Jews are back in their homeland, am I to believe they started invading Palestine then ?

This is debatable. I do believe most of us accept that the territory given to Jews in 1948, was justified in the circumstances. Whether it was wise, to take a people's territory to give to another, was wise, is another story.

But what has happened since is constant taking of new territors, bit by bit, illegal settlement after illegal settlement. And this accelerating hugely after 1967. This should have never ever been tolerated, and should have been stopped strongly and categorically- as it was clear that resentment and tensions would increase with each bit taken, and with every act of crulety, violence and humiliation, every child, mother and man taken as prisoners without charge or shot in the back never to be seen again.

This is from the United Nations

'CONCLUSIONS

1. The establishment of settlements in the occupied territories has been widely condemned by the international community and the United Nations through its various bodies, the General Assembly, the Security Council, the Commission on Human Rights etc. United Nations resolutions have called upon Israel to desist from taking any action which would result in changing the legal status and geographical nature and demographic composition of the Arab territories occupied since 1967.

2. Taking into account that the fourth Geneva Convention and the Hague Convention are applicable to the territories occupied by Israel, the General Assembly has declared that the establishment of settlements and the transfer of population that it entails are illegal.

3. The General Assembly has condemned the evacuation, deportation, expulsion, displacement and transfer of Arab inhabitants of the occupied territories and denial of their right of return.

4. The Security Council, in its resolution 465 (1980), called upon the Government and people of Israel to dismantle the existing settlements and to cease, on an urgent basis, the establishment, construction and planning of settlements in the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem.

5. The international community considers that the policy of settlements constitutes a serious obstruction to the achievement of a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East.

6. The Security Council has determined that the policy and practices/of Israel in establishing settlements in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967 have no legal validity.'

Anniebach

Surely one doesn’t have to read to understand the fear for Jews
1948, films from the Holocaust were in cinemas, such understanding here for Palestinian Muslims Little for Jews ,

Not from all of us Annie

I’ll never forget the horrors that rained down on the Jews ( & some others), herded into camps, films sent to Germany as propaganda, showing “happy people in “work camps” enjoying life”, the terrible atrocities committed should always be taught in our history.

What was done to Jewish families during WW1 was utterly despicable, evil, ignorant and appalling and none of us should ever be allowed to forget.

I fear though, some people have learned nothing since WW2.

Of course I wasn’t alive then, but I’ve read and watched a lot of documentaries.

"During the 1948 Palestine war in which the State of Israel was established, around 700,000[fn 1] Palestinian Arabs, or 85% of the total population of the territory Israel captured, were expelled or fled from their homes.["
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight

I know that wikipedia articles are derided by some, but the references in this article are to respected historians.

The rest of the article is more detailed. I won't type/copy/paste another post as long as the previous one, just quote a couple of footnotes.

27) Slater, Jerome (2020). Mythologies Without End: The US, Israel, and the Arab-Israeli Conflict, 1917-2020. Oxford University Press, Incorporated. ISBN 978-0-19-045908-6.

“There is no serious dispute among Israeli, Palestinian, or other historians about the central facts of the Nakba. All of the leading Israeli New Historians—particularly Morris, Shlaim, Pappé, and Flapan—extensively examined the issue and revealed the facts. Other accounts have reached the same conclusions. For example, see Ben-Ami, "A War to Start All Wars"; Rashid Khalidi, "The Palestinians and 1948"; Walid Khalidi, "Why Did the Palestinians Leave, Revisited"; Masalha, Expulsion of the Palestinians; Raz, Bride and the Dowry.

Reviewing the evidence marshaled by Morris and others, Tom Segev concluded that "most of the Arabs in the country, approximately 400,000, were chased out and expelled during the first stage of the war. In other words, before the Arab armies invaded the country" (Haaretz, July 18, 2010).

Other estimates have varied concerning the number of Palestinians who fled or were expelled before the May 1948 Arab state attack; Morris estimated the number to be 250,000–300,000 (The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited, 262); Tessler puts it at 300,000 (A History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, 279); Pappé's estimate is 380,000 (The Making of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, 96). In another recent review of the evidence, the Israeli historian Daniel Blatman estimates the number to be about 500,000 (Blatman, "Netanyahu, This Is What Ethnic Cleansing Really Looks Like").

Whatever the exact number, even Israeli "Old Historians" now admit that during the 1948 war, the Israeli armed forces drove out many of the Palestinians, though they emphasized the action as a military "necessity." For example, see Anita Shapira, Israel: A History, 167–68.

28) Abu-Laban, Yasmeen; Bakan, Abigail B. (July 2022). "Anti-Palestinian Racism and Racial Gaslighting". The Political Quarterly, Vol. 93, Issue 3, p. 511:

"Palestinians have long known what happened to them in 1948 and its very human costs. However, the work of the ‘new’ (or revisionist) Israeli historians from the late 1970s also challenged the official state narrative of a miraculous wartime victory through access to material in the Israeli archives.

This has established what Ilan Pappé has summarised as the ‘ethnic cleansing of Palestine’, a process involving massacres and expulsions at gunpoint. In light of the ever-growing historiography, serious scholarship has left little debate about what happened in 1948. [...] However, Nakba denial remains a political issue of the highest order.

Wyllow3

Boz

It is the medieval mind-set of Hamas that is so awful; kidnapping, killing by decapitation together with the macho culture that denigrates women. I have no sympathy with Middle Eastern cultures that have such barbaric habits.

And with one sweeping sentence, you ignore thousands of years of many different regions, rich in different cultures and different religions, including christianity, based on the evidence of terrorists.

As if the West were naturally superior and morally without serious issues.

Western liberal values are superior to the medieval mindset of quite a few countries in the middle east.Israel stands head and shoulders above them. Look around at those countries and customs and the way people are treated, especially women.
The terrorists are so much worse, another level altogether.

Their medieval mindset at work, returned 4 bodies, a man aged
83 a young mother and her two babies, coffins placed on a stage

“This is debatable. I do believe most of us accept that the territory given to Jews in 1948, was justified in the circumstances. Whether it was wise, to take a people's territory to give to another, was wise, is another story.”

The Jews weren't “allowed” to return after WW1 they migrated without any organized plan, settled and defended their settlements. Arabs resisted that settlement, Britain tried to keep the peace, after WW2 mass migration happened and Britain could no longer keep order and left, disunited Arabs were no match for united Jewish settlers.

That is the position today,

The body sent back as Shiri Bibas is not her, according to Israeli authorities.

Can Hamas stoop any lower…

The body is not any of the hostages, the poor husband is released , speaks of his wife and small children, then learns they are dead, now will he have hope his wife is still alive?

Am sure Hamas can sink lower, cruelty is a bottomless pit for them

There'll no doubt be someone along to defend this latest depravity, Anniebach and GrannyGravy.

Those two children have been on my mind ever since the October 7th atrocity, their mother holding them, trying to protect them.
😥

Allira how can anyone defend what we saw and know, my stomach is churning at the thought of the bereaved husband and the people of Israel

Nobody, but NOBODY, sill defend this.

But to ignore that so many Palestinians, children, mothers, fathers- have just disappeared, shot in the back, taken without charge and held in awful conditions, starved and beaten, tortured and raped- means that some people think that some lives are worth so much more than others. The words 'but they are vermin' have been used so many times by Israelis.

The pain this poor man must be suffering is un-imaginable. But is it worse than the pain of all the innocents that have been blown to smithereens in Gaza, humiliated, tortured, taken without charge and often just 'disappeared' with their families never knowing.

Hate for hate, eye for an eye- and we will soon all be blind.

The only number of deceased is given by Hamas , seeing the large number of Palestinians present at the release of hostages and even at release of dead bodies I didn’t see grief

Western liberal values are what I believe in. Presumably if we stand with Europe against Russia that will be what we are defending. If you continually tell people how terrible these values are dont be at all surprised when they refuse to join you to fight for them.

Unfortunately Galaxy this denigration of the UK has been relentlessly going on for years, much of it from the left am sad to say.