The Guardian reports that Trump says all Palestinians should move out of Gaza

Terrorists attack, those they attack defend

Elegran

If they were at war with another country, they should be adhering to the standards of international warfare. They are not doing so.

If they are destroying land and killing people who are not in a separate country, but part of their own, they are doing it to punish the whole area and the community living in it for the crimes of a part. I think that would be classed as "cruel and unnatural punishment"

It’s not revenge it’s about survival and defence.It’s about making sure that hamas are eliminated as a political and fighting force.And it isn’t over yet.

Beyond a certain point, defence becomes attack.

Eliminating all Palestinians wouldn't make it be all over. There would be relatives and friends full of mourning and resentment, as Israeli relatives and friends are full of mourning and resentment for their dead. How can there ever be peace between them? They will be looking over their shoulders for ever - on both sides.

Israel is beset by enemies and has been looking over its shoulder for a very long time.
The end game for Gaza is that hamas will never again be a political force there and the remnants of its fighting force will be mopped up.

Quote Elegran Mon 24-Feb-25 22:00:48
Eliminating all Palestinians wouldn't make it be all over. There would be relatives and friends full of mourning and resentment, as Israeli relatives and friends are full of mourning and resentment for their dead. How can there ever be peace between them? They will be looking over their shoulders for ever - on both sides

Palestinians are full of mourning and resentment for their dead
what do you think Jews are living with ? , centuries of hatred against them, still are

But will they REALLY make sure that they will have no hatred toward them by wiping out all Gazans and occupying the land that the Gazans were living on before 1948?

Inflicting multiple times the punishment for a crime onto a people, most of whom were not complicit in that crime except for living in an area that they would like to get empty and colonise themselves is not exactly the way to ensure peace and harmony.

Israel have a legal system, which could have tried the actual perpetrators, and a police force which could have found them and arrested them, if they considered that Gaza was part of Israel. If they regarded it as an invasion from outside their country, they could have invoked the UN and international law.

Had it been any other country except Israel they would have been condemned by international opinion. But because they have so much sympathy (mostly for the inhuman "final solution" tried in the gas camps) they were not prevented from continuing the bombardments and slaughters well beyond punishment of the guilty and into retaliation on the whole population.

Some will say "But Hamas were elected by Palestinians".

Does this mean that if the supporters of the elected President of the United States decide to speed up his wished-for annexation of Canada as the 5!st State by cruelly attacking the inhabitants of the nearest province, Canada would be justified in razing the buildings of Minnesota to the ground and killing all the inhabitants who hadn't heeded their warning to leave the area at once and go east to Wisconsin - and then following it up by bombing Wisconsin, too, and killing those who HAD heeded the warning, as well as the usual inhabitants of Wisconsin.)

Would that be OK because the US elected the leader who thought it Ok to promote the idea of just taking over an area he coveted?

There is no nationality Gazan, they are Palestinians who are Arabs.

1948 6 Arab countries declared war on Israel, peoples of Palestine are Arabs .

Israel has been in danger since and Jews in danger for centuries

So they have, Annie. As I have always said.

However I am sad on this thread we don't seem to recognise the suffering of ordinary citizens of Gaza. I don't hold an extreme position, but I don't see all Gaza citizens as Hamas and feel innocents there in need of our compassion too. Also citizens displaced on the West Bank.

I have compassion for them too, but I will not deny the persecution of Jews. And will say so every time I read ‘yes but’ or similar
Israel is doing what all countries do and have done, defended itself.
On October 7, 2023, Hamas and several other Palestinian militant groups launched coordinated armed incursions from the Gaza Strip into the Gaza Envelope of southern Israel, the first invasion of Israeli territory since the 1948 Arab–Israeli War. The attacks, which coincided with the Jewish religious holiday Simchat Torah, initiated the ongoing Gaza war.

No-one here, but absolutely no-one, is denying the presecution of the Jews. Not one.

But I am sorry, but you seem to have NO compassion for the Palestinians who have suffered so much and for so long, and especially since October 7th. Your comments clearly indicate that some suffering, and some people- are 'worth' so much more than others. And I am sorry again, it is clear that the intention is, to wipe all Palestinians from Palestine, be it in Gaza, or the West Bank, at any human cost.

1948 was not the start of hostilities between Israelis and Arabs. I have tried to summarise the sequence of legalities and massacres (on both sides) in the Civil War which preceded the 1948 existence of the Jewish State, but the subject is too tortuous. There is a Wikipedia article about it, Read it and try to keep a tally of the violence on both sides but I don't think you will succeed. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947%E2%80%931948_civil_war_in_Mandatory_Palestine and the Civil War was not the start, either.

Israel was one of many Semitic groups in OT times. (Semitic does not mean just Jewish. See www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Semitic) There were always wars, skirmishes and competition for land in the Middle East, where trade and conquest from the east met that from the west, and north met south. The nations there now may all have modernised constitutions and technologies, but their instincts and their hereditary enemies are the same.

I don't see it as an either/or Annie. I didn't ask you to deny anything.

We are speaking of Jews and Muslims

And of armies and weapons, and of civilians, women and children.

Yes all of those

The Crusades were very bloody and gruesome. Christians against Muslims. And yes, a very long time ago.

If you read the Old Testament accounts, that early era (I'm not talking about the Crusades in the Middle Ages, but the era of Moses and the kings, prophets, and so on) was full of battles against various tribes. Israel was the winner (and maybe the starter) in most of them, though you do have to allow for hearing more about these ones than about the ones they lost.

Back to today- Israelis are now clearing the West Bank, never mind Gaza. Palestinian houses and villages being bulldozed, children trying to save them arrested as 'terrorists'. Another humanitarian disaster in the making

www.facebook.com/reel/620588710612908

Some lives, some babies' lives, seem to matter more than most.
Of course, if their parents were Hamas supporters, I suppose that means they deserved it.

At least six Palestinian infants have died from hypothermia during a severe cold spell in the Gaza Strip, medical officials said.

Dr Saeed Salah, medical director of the Friends of the Patient Charitable Hospital in Gaza City, said on Tuesday that three newborns – aged between one and two days – died shortly after being admitted. Two more children also succumbed on Tuesday morning, with a sixth death reported in Khan Younis, in southern Gaza.

The Gaza Health Ministry (GHM), officially the Palestinian Ministry of Health – Gaza, is responsible for managing healthcare and medical services in the Gaza Strip. It operates under the jurisdiction of the territory's Hamas government, which is independent of the Palestinian National Authority, and was headquartered in Gaza City before the outbreak of the Israel–Hamas war in October 2023. The Ramallah-based Palestinian Medical Authority oversees and retains power over the parallel Gaza ministry, providing medical equipment, paying the salaries of its employees and receiving medical data from it.[1]

Thank you, sadly and tragically, for 'proving the point'. Reply showing NO empathy whatsoever about the death of Palestinian babies.

Tragedy whats happening in the West Bank. No Hamas there: it's being taken over by Israel now using its military might: all so wrong.

Hamas are Palestinians, the cheering mob in the streets when
hostages were released were not wearing masks but were Palestinians

There is NO Hamas in the West Bank.

And babies are not Hamas, or responsible for Hamas. Babies are babies. And none are worth more empathy than others.

And the IDF soldiers shown celebrating and shouting, and laughing, as they bomb civilians to smithereens are Jews. Those who watch others, illegal settlers, destroy properties, burn ancient olive groves and crops, destroy sources of water, beat or rape, shoot Palestinians point blank- and do nothing, are Israeli soldiers.

Hate for hate- but you will only acknowledge hate or pain from one side.