Want to understand what Trump is doing?

ronib

Grandmabatty The points about any government and bureaucracy apply regardless of country and individual players. So seems to me that the power struggle between say Sunak and his Rwandan scheme are in the same place as Trump’s at the moment. It’s not personal.

Nope, nothing like the Rwanda scheme and Sunak at all. Please read the thread.

ronib

The judiciary here has just extended the Ukrainian Visa Scheme to include Palestinians- breaking news.

Yes, and the Starmer government is also toughening up the rules regarding those who arrive illegally and citizenship. If you are going to try and derail a thread, at least give the whole story.

I don’t hold any particular beliefs..

Don't be absurd, ronib. You hold a deepseated and unshakeable belief in the iniquity of 'the bureaucracy'.

Whitewavemark2

I am hearing and reading a lot of conversations that confirm what iamaround has posted - namely that the USA is completely divided and that if Trump continues to challenge the courts and constitution it will end up at the very least unrest and very worse civil war.

The difference between USA and Germany in the 30s is that German was not a divided society, and Hitler did what he did with almost no opposition, that is not true of Trump.

Many people in Germany did not agree with Hitler and his regime but were frightened to speak out. The Gestapo had been established and those who dared to oppose the regime were arrested and sent to camps.
Children joined the Hitler Youth and were brainwashed into reporting members of their own families and friends.

MaizieD

PoliticsNerd

ronib

Without getting too agitated, have we not experienced in the UK examples of the judicial system overturning or overruling/overriding political decisions? I am not suggesting that Trump is in anyway saintly but he did say from the beginning that he wanted change and the voters have endorsed him. There seems a lot of angst around Woke ideology for example and Trump seems to be tackling it head on.

The only example I can think of that compares is the Supreme Court's ruling on the prorogation of Parliament. That was significant in that it reaffirmed sovereignty and therefore the nations right to democracy.

If you believe that wanting change equals destroying democracy then your ideology is extreme. I doubt any facts or descriptions of the rules that maintain that democracy would make any difference to your thinking. Nor would those arguments change the actions of those who also think the destruction of a democracy, which has been evolving here since the late 17th Century, is simply a "change" that any dictator should be able to force on us.

There was the ruling in 2017(?) that prevented Theresa May from activating A50 without the consent of Parliament. There have been a number of judicial reviews since than which have concluded that the government had acted unlawfully. And wouldn't tribunals which overturn government decisions, say on asylum seekers, count?

A government can try to effect 'change' either legally through the Legislature (Parliament) or illegally by, ultimately, the use of force. The second method is completely undemocratic and tyrannical. We chopped a King's head off for trying that...

I wish a course on politics and the constitution was obligatory in schools (subject to teachers understanding it, of course).

There's nothing like the internet for spreading codswallop...

A course on politics, constitution and critical thinking would be very useful, and it is not just the youngsters that need it as many on here have illustrated.

MaizieD A level history on Turkey and Kemal Atta Turk (I think) from a very long time ago impressed on me then how difficult societal change was and it’s still the case now.

Allira

Whitewavemark2

I am hearing and reading a lot of conversations that confirm what iamaround has posted - namely that the USA is completely divided and that if Trump continues to challenge the courts and constitution it will end up at the very least unrest and very worse civil war.

The difference between USA and Germany in the 30s is that German was not a divided society, and Hitler did what he did with almost no opposition, that is not true of Trump.

Many people in Germany did not agree with Hitler and his regime but were frightened to speak out. The Gestapo had been established and those who dared to oppose the regime were arrested and sent to camps.
Children joined the Hitler Youth and were brainwashed into reporting members of their own families and friends.

Of course but the country was not divided down the middle as it is in USA

Ataturk typo

It might have been had people spoken up.
But they were frightened.

I hope the same doesn't happen in the USA, it seems inconceivable but

It doesn't matter whether you are aware "how very difficult it is for advanced industrial societies to bring about real social change", or even if you believe that to be true David49.

Without the rule of law democracy cannot exist. If Trump does not obey the court order to lift the freeze on the billions of dollars in Federal funding that had been allocated to the states, which is now backed in the second stage by 22 Attorneys General, he is basically declaring Civil War.

"A course on politics, constitution and critical thinking would be very useful, and it is not just the youngsters that need it as many on here have illustrated."

Perhaps that will happen HousePlantQueen. I hope so.

Meanwhile - well done Denmark for offering to buy California, good on them!

They already HAVE broken the law. And violated peoples constitutional rights.

Almost every single action he has taken has been illegal. This is not hypothetical or in the future.

Casdon

Meanwhile - well done Denmark for offering to buy California, good on them!

Brilliant! Play him at his own game.

Casdon

Meanwhile - well done Denmark for offering to buy California, good on them!

I wonder if France will offer them a euro or two to get Louisiana back 😂

Empty gesture politics?

ronib

MaizieD A level history on Turkey and Kemal Atta Turk (I think) from a very long time ago impressed on me then how difficult societal change was and it’s still the case now.

BA Hons degree in History/Politics. I know how the system originated and how it works.

Incidentally, my current read, Thomas Piketty, tells me that the greatest societal change in the UK and the US took place post WWII when the rich were very highly taxed, at rates of up to 98%. The nearest to seriously reducing inequality this country has ever been.

Thatcher soon saw that socialist nonsense off...

ronib

Empty gesture politics?

You just don’t get it ronib, do you?

MaizieD your degree does sound a touch conventional?

Casdon no one is buying up any country - it’s laughable.

Yah, well done Denmark👏👏👏

amp.dw.com/en/e-petition-urges-denmark-to-buy-california-from-trump/a-71583221

ronib

Casdon no one is buying up any country - it’s laughable.

Tell that to Trump. If you hadn't noticed, he intends to buy Canada, Greenland, and open Gaza as a Trump resort.

The best reply was this

www.itv.com/news/2025-01-23/danish-official-tells-trump-to-f-off-over-greenland-threats

In the world of Trump, be more Greenland.

HousePlantQueen

ronib

Casdon no one is buying up any country - it’s laughable.

Tell that to Trump. If you hadn't noticed, he intends to buy Canada, Greenland, and open Gaza as a Trump resort.

The best reply was this

www.itv.com/news/2025-01-23/danish-official-tells-trump-to-f-off-over-greenland-threats

In the world of Trump, be more Greenland.

ronib

Casdon no one is buying up any country - it’s laughable.

You think not?

Trump previously said he wouldn't rule out using the military to seize control of Greenland and threatened to impose high tariffs on Denmark if they didn't hand it over.

HousePlantQueen

I wonder what Trump's reaction was to being told to f* off by Anders Vistisen? Do we know?
Bullies prefer you to cower and simper - they get enraged if you stand up to them, usually.

Throwing Ukraine to the wolves that is what Trump is doing. I’m desperately worried for the Ukrainians. VZ must be so upset after all he has done since the beginning of the war to save his country. Life in Ukraine will only get worse.

Putin is a bullying psychotic murderer imo.

The South Carolina Fetal Heartbeat bill case is being heard in front of the Supreme Court today.

The doctors are arguing that 9 weeks is a better time frame to detect a fetal heartbeat vs the 6 weeks the state says.

www.wistv.com/2025/02/12/sc-supreme-court-hears-arguments-state-heartbeat-law/

The Republican Spending Bill is out. I haven't done much research in it but reports are saying it adds $4.5 trillion in new debts and adds $4t to the debt ceiling.

This will send inflation skyrocketing, and it is already ticking up.

Leaders at ICE are being replaced because ICE is not meeting quotas of migrants detained. There is also reports that the detention centers are full, so agents are releasing people back into society. Doesn't sound like the massive roundup have been super effective so far.

I expect the rounding up of people to increase as ideas have been floated around that they may task IRS agents to help ICE agents. Local police have been deputized so they can legally detain migrants for deportation.