Letby didn't murder babies new experts claim.

A trial with jury would be impossible now, seeing as so many always knew she was innocent, thought there was something odd about the verdict etc etc. We've even had a poor Lucy

So much chatter, trial by jury would be impossible

Oreo

undines

The 'expert' doctor who was pretty much responsible for her conviction, has 'form'. He was involved in the Bonnie Lewis case, in Neath, back in the early part of the century. What happened to that little girl - who was illegally taken from her family - was horrendous. If you are a psychopath and you want to do maximum damage, what profession do you choose? Doctor is a good one, sorry to say.

So is becoming a nurse in a babies unit.

The shadows of Dr Shipman and Beverley Allitt both fall across this case but it does not mean that LL is guilty (or innocent).

Imagine if Lucy Letby is innocent! Imagine how she and her parents, friends and relatives must be feeling. The fact that it is babies who died immediately gives them and their families the sympathy vote, and puts Lucy Letby in a bad light.
Juries have even wrong before and there have been terrible miscarriages of justice.
I think we owe it to everyone involved to examine any new evidence so that if LL is guilty there will be no shadow of a doubt, and if she isn't- well, it doesn't bear thinking about what her future will look like.

I am always a bit wary of 'experts', a bit like (statisticions), give them enough 'information' (figures) and they can prove anything.

Damn! Can't correct a typo!

‘Experts’ often agree and it’s positive in complex situations for them to be some difference of opinion.
The original expert was instructed to give an unbiased opinion, in relation to their expertise.

The ‘new expert panel’ were instructed by the defence. They didn’t sit through the long trial where every aspect was forensically investigated.

If my baby had been found by the jury to have been murdered by Letby, I can’t imagine the pain I’d be feeling listening to people who ‘always felt she was innocent/

I imagine Lucy Letby's family have had all sorts of harassment and find it difficult to participate in life at all.

the fact that it is babies who died immediately gives them and their families the sympathy vote and puts Lucy in a bad light

Jannipans, I find your post remarkably insensitive and surprising given the long police investigation and evidence from witnesses who worked along side her.

Indigo8

Oreo

undines

The 'expert' doctor who was pretty much responsible for her conviction, has 'form'. He was involved in the Bonnie Lewis case, in Neath, back in the early part of the century. What happened to that little girl - who was illegally taken from her family - was horrendous. If you are a psychopath and you want to do maximum damage, what profession do you choose? Doctor is a good one, sorry to say.

So is becoming a nurse in a babies unit.

The shadows of Dr Shipman and Beverley Allitt both fall across this case but it does not mean that LL is guilty (or innocent).

Or the doctor mentioned by undines either.

I can’t help thinking of that poor woman who was wrongfully convicted of killing her babies because of the evidence of an ‘expert’ that was subsequently found to be very flawed. In fact they were cot deaths.

The poor woman never recovered even after being exonerated - the trauma had gone too deep, and IIRC she eventually committed suicide.

After reading what these experts wrote about the hospital concerned I'd not be surprised if the hospital sued. If they're allowed.

Every death is put down to the nurses and doctors basically doing the wrong thing.

And the Canadian doctor said the hospital would have been closed if it was in any other country.

Now we know that the NHS has its issues but this is surely a step too far.

Oreo I included undines comment deliberately and added my comment. Not quite sure what you are getting at, please explain.

And the Canadian doctor said the hospital would have been closed if it was in any other country

Well, I’d say to that Canadian doctor that I’m very glad that hospital wasn’t closed down - because I’ve had excellent treatment there for a serious illness. I couldn’t have received better care.

The Canadian doctor was a neonatologist. He was talking specifically about SCBUs. He said the evidence he’d read pointed to many very concerning issues - like for instance some of the consultants didn’t know how to operate some of the equipment.

Whilst it must be terrible for the parents to hear all of the case over again, surely it must be more horrible if the wrong person has been convicted. It is not the first time that a jury has got it wrong- do you remember when women were convicted of causing the death of their children based on evidence from a statistical information ? Later found to be a biological issue in families.
The Birmingham six imprisoned for bombs- later released .
Personally I don't believe she is solely responsible for the deaths or if she is involved then others must have known or were involved. If you work in such a dedicated team then how can you cause so much devastation without somebody noticing at an early stage ?

LizzieDrip

^And the Canadian doctor said the hospital would have been closed if it was in any other country^

Well, I’d say to that Canadian doctor that I’m very glad that hospital wasn’t closed down - because I’ve had excellent treatment there for a serious illness. I couldn’t have received better care.

It’s only the one department that is being spoken of, but as a mother of two babies who needed the excellent care normally provided by NICU, I find these comments extremely worrying.

Is the department fit for purpose or not?

We can chatter about it, but the basic truth is that we don’t know whether LL is guilty or whether the department is unfit for purpose. Or both.

Sleepyhead52

I am always a bit wary of 'experts', a bit like (statisticions), give them enough 'information' (figures) and they can prove anything.

Exactly, I'm sure the prosecution would be able to find plenty of 'experts' 'disproving' what these 'experts' are saying.
Experts giving evidence in court are very well paid.

They'd be going some to disprove the President of the Royal College of Pediatrics! This new panel has no axe to grind. Just want to get to the truth. It's in everyone's interest to do that.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

The Canadian doctor was a neonatologist. He was talking specifically about SCBUs. He said the evidence he’d read pointed to many very concerning issues - like for instance some of the consultants didn’t know how to operate some of the equipment.

He said the whole hospital would have closed, FGT

A Canadian neonatal expert has made a startling claim that the Countess of Chester Hospital would face closure if the alleged 'errors' he disclosed to journalists regarding the Lucy Letby case occurred in Canada

It makes you wonder what good the justice system is. Every verdict and sentence is appealed and often reversed. Still it keeps all those legal boffins off the street and gainfully employed I suppose.

It does make you wonder how many people have been wrongly convicted because of incorrect expert witnesses. Is it only because of the high profile of this case that experts' opinions have challenged and changed. Are there other lesser known crimes where experts' opinions have been incorrect?

Cossy

Babs03

Have changed the title.
And is nothing to do with me.
Take it up with the BBC.
Thank you.

Bless you

You’ve done nothing wrong Babs03
Never known so much fuss about a title..🌺

Don't really know if she's innocent or not but it seemed to me, from the news coverage, that the evidence wasn't good enough to convict her. I think evidence was cherry picked, timelines weren't clear cut enough, too many things were potentially important but ignored and the failings of the entirety of the care offered was not taken into account adequately. I feel so sad for the poor children, and the parents and families of those who were injured or died, but I don't think blaming one nurse for all this is justified from what I've read. Guilty or not, I don't think she got a proper defense. I obviously haven't seen all the detailed evidence but I was never convinced it was a safe conviction regardless of her innocence or otherwise.

I watched the whole of the two hour press conference presented by Dr Shoo Lee the eminent Canadian neonatologist whose paper on air embolism was used incorrectly by the prosecution.
He and his team of world experts have worked pro bono to analyse each case in detail. The presentation was an object lesson in scientific rigour and left no doubt in each and every case that there was no evidence of murder and that death was from natural causes or medical neglect.
The so-called expert medical witness in the trial contacted the police to offer his services saying that it sounded like “ his sort of case” and that he had only “lost” one case - hardly impartial. In addition he was a long retired paediatrician with no qualifications in neonatal medicine. Furthermore, the judge in another trial where he was the expert witness had said his evidence was worthless and contacted the Letby trial Judge with this information.
All this begs the question of what happens next. There can hardly be.

a re trial if no crimes were committed!