Next step in overriding female rights!

He is not biologically female. That is impossible.

Cossy How competent would you judge a Dr to be if he said that biological sex is “a nebulous concept” and yet he is categorical that he is a biological woman? How does he know? If it’s, as he claims, he feels like a woman then what he’s saying is that feelings over-ride facts.
Surely you agree that human biology is factual, not just a concept. And as others have mentioned, certain illnesses/diseases present differently in women and men. How will Dr U know how to treat patients if he’s unable to sex them correctly?
I can guarantee that he didn’t pass any medical exams by writing twaddle like that. I’m not sure when he qualified/left Dundee University but I’m sure that I’m correct in saying that DU have never/are not teaching that.

I think this is a much more complex question that just what the transgender person wants. Any transgender person who feels (s)he has a right to sweep away other people's concerns would, imho, make a very suspect doctor (or nurse or any other member of the caring professions). Every person in the world possesses some kind of sensitivities and it's a very boorish person who would use some legal clause to trample on them. I wouldn't want to have a boor in charge of my medical treatment.

Exactly, NonGrannyMoll

And people have a right to know who is around when they are getting dressed or undressed, when they are asleep, ill or otherwise vulnerable. What I, or any of us, would feel in any of those situations is neither here nor there. If anyone objects for their own reasons they have every right to do so, and pretending that there is no issue because a transwoman thinks they look like a woman just doesn't cut it.

Again speaking only for myself, I am less concerned if a transwoman has surgically transitioned (ie does not have male genitals and hormones), but if not they are 100% male. I know not everyone agrees that there is a difference and I respect that, but to me, if someone has female hormones (even artificial ones) and no male genitalia they pose much less of a threat than an intact male.

It is the hypocrisy of claiming discrimination/hurt feelings or whatever when the female nurse felt uncomfortable, but not acknowledging the feelings of said nurse. If you see what I am trying to say. Like others, if I was an emergency admission, the race or gender of the attending medical staff would nor be my first concern, but the one sided entitlement for consideration angers me

It is Male entitlement.

HousePlantQueen

It is the hypocrisy of claiming discrimination/hurt feelings or whatever when the female nurse felt uncomfortable, but not acknowledging the feelings of said nurse. If you see what I am trying to say. Like others, if I was an emergency admission, the race or gender of the attending medical staff would nor be my first concern, but the one sided entitlement for consideration angers me

I do see, and that s what concerns me, not the being transgender.

Yup. And if women speak out about it we are 'phobic'.

Professor Robert Winston has called gender-affirming surgery ‘mutilation’ and has said that “we can remove bits of the body and change our shape and so on but you can’t change your sex because it is embedded in your genes in every cell of your body”.

Well if it is good enough for Professor Winston it is good enough for me!

That this doctor objected to the nurse who stated that she thought he should not be in the female changing room, is the same as all the other women in the world who have complained about men in female changing rooms, and have suffered severely for saying so.
There is added jeopardy here, because of SP's refusal to play along with his fantasy that he is a woman, SP's future employment, her registration, and fitness to practice are all at risk.
He enjoyed playing word games with SP's barrister - with back up from his barrister - with regard to a definition of female/woman, actual woman etc, but I note that he did none of that with the judge and panel members who asked questions after the cross examination.
Anyone notice that he was wearing the earings that his wife wore in their wedding photograph?

When Sandie Peggie (the nurse in question) told Dr Upton she was uncomfortable with him being in the changing room with her, he claimed to be upset by this. Yet on another occasion, when she left the room, he also claimed that this upset him too. She was damned if she did, damned if she didn't. Make no mistake, this is all about his 'entitlement' - throughout the whole tribunal, he has shown not one ounce of compassion or empathy whatsoever.

charley68 They’re not the same ear-rings, when you see photos of both pairs side-by-side, it’s easy to see the differences.

From what I have read this is not an issue about what the doctor has done in a clinical setting.

It is apparently to do with incidents of harrassment in a changing room.

As a former nurse I don't ever remember doctors changing in the same space as nurses. Mostly doctors didn't change at all, because they wore their own clothes under their white coats, or not even white coats, depending on the setting.

So I am a little bemused as to why the doctor was 'changing' at all- unless the protocol has changed since Covid- although I was in hospital post-Covid and never saw a doctor in anything other than their own clothes (except obviously in a surgical setting, which I don't know applies here?).

mumofmadboys am I correct in thinking you are a retired GP?

If so, how do you feel about this male doctor claiming he is biologically female?

Wyllow3

HousePlantQueen

It is the hypocrisy of claiming discrimination/hurt feelings or whatever when the female nurse felt uncomfortable, but not acknowledging the feelings of said nurse. If you see what I am trying to say. Like others, if I was an emergency admission, the race or gender of the attending medical staff would nor be my first concern, but the one sided entitlement for consideration angers me

I do see, and that s what concerns me, not the being transgender.

In the link I posted Re the court case this argument was the crux of case.
In their race for inclusiveness the rights of the claimant were ignored.
Only the person who insisted being addressed by their chosen pro noun had rights.
Disappearing up their own backside springs to mind 🤦🏼‍♀️

Cossy

I’m on the fence here. If I was bleeding profusely from anywhere I wouldn’t care who treated me so long as they were qualified.

I’d judge the doctor by their treatment and competency, I couldn’t care less if he/she was black, white, pink, gay, straight, male, female or trans.

Me neither if I was bleeding profusely from a cut or from my nose, as long as they were qualified.

But if I was bleeding profusely from the vagina I would like to be seen by a doctor who might just realise what a vagina is and that I have one because I am a biological woman.
Obviously this doctor is not well qualified enough to know the difference so I would assume he is not qualified and would not want him to deal with even a nose bleed or cut on my head.

JenniferEccles

mumofmadboys am I correct in thinking you are a retired GP?

If so, how do you feel about this male doctor claiming he is biologically female?

This statement is puzzling too:

Upton told the tribunal: “The term biologically female or biologically male is completely nebulous. It has no defined or agreed meaning in science, as far as I’m aware.

“I’m not a robot, so I am biological and my identity is female. Without wanting to appeal to the dictionary too much, I’m biologically female.”

Upton has stated that he is not an obstetrician. That would seem to be obvious. Nor too versed in logic either!

I think Grandmabatty’s assessment of that ‘doctor’ is spot on.

NanKate

Professor Robert Winston has called gender-affirming surgery ‘mutilation’ and has said that “we can remove bits of the body and change our shape and so on but you can’t change your sex because it is embedded in your genes in every cell of your body”.

Well if it is good enough for Professor Winston it is good enough for me!

Yes, I agree. A man can never be a woman, but (again, speaking for myself) I think a surgically and hormonally altered man is far less likely to be a threat to women than an intact man.

If I was bleeding profusely and panicking over that and I asked if the doctor or nurse was female (more likely the way things are going), then I would expect a truthful answer.

After reading Keepingquiet's comment it strikes me that in all the years I sat with my husband in hospital it never looked as if the doctors and nurses all changed together. Apart from female nurses not wanting male doctors to see them naked (I am reminded of a midwife friend who refused to have her baby in hospital because she didn't want the consultant to see her "like that") it's surely a chance for nurses to exchange a few remarks about their day. It would be difficult to start a "Did you hear what that doctor said?" conversation if that doctor was likely to walk in.

I hear what you say Doodledog but my concern is how does the woman know if the transwoman has actually transitioned completely?

The national Federation of WIs wrote to me about my concerns that the WI has accepted transwomen without a vote of the full membership and told me that they accept transwomen who haven’t yet fully transitioned.

I am always keen to read your replies as you are imo the voice of sanity on GN.

I know doodle and myself disagree on this, I dont care what men do to their body, or what they 'feel', if they are in womens spaces when they know women dont consent, then in my view they are a predatory man.

Read or watch on utube Dr Az Hakeem for an in depth explanation of why men behave like this.

Deedaa

After reading Keepingquiet's comment it strikes me that in all the years I sat with my husband in hospital it never looked as if the doctors and nurses all changed together. Apart from female nurses not wanting male doctors to see them naked (I am reminded of a midwife friend who refused to have her baby in hospital because she didn't want the consultant to see her "like that") it's surely a chance for nurses to exchange a few remarks about their day. It would be difficult to start a "Did you hear what that doctor said?" conversation if that doctor was likely to walk in.

I was never naked in a changing room in 25 years in the NHS- neither did I see anyone else naked.

The uniform went on over your underwear, and took a matter of seconds.

So, yes there may have been a bit of chatting and either gossip, but most of us just wanted to get to work at the start of the day, and then get off home at the end.

I really don't understand what a doctor was doing in the nurses changing rooms in the first place.

Watching NHS live today to see if I can spot a doctor and what clothes they are wearing!