Next step in overriding female rights!

A doctor in a female changing room did happen. It was allowed for trans women to use the changing room.

Some posters have said it would be alright if the man had undergone gender reassignment but how would you know and tbh even if I knew I would still not want to be getting changed in the same room as a man.

While I'll accept that surgical adaptations and hormone treatment show a level of personal commitment, neither actually reduce a man's stature nor overall strength, and certainly not his sex. You're still left with a male in the female area, which in a supposedly single sex space turns it into a mixed sex space. At this point why keep any males at all out? Important to note that Beth Upton's only 'adaptation' is to utter the magic words, and name change to Beth. Health authorities, who you'd think would absolutely be aware there are two distinct sexes and it's impossible to change from one to the other, seem to be captured by the ideology and say to use whichever room aligns with your 'gender identity'. Presumably the non-binary and gender fluid could be swapping between male and female ones at will.

Thanks Rosie51
I wonder if anyone is as willing to accept the lie from an untrained person that I’m a doctor as they are to accept the lie that a male is female?

For me the issue is substantially about Beth Upton's character and specific views. Instead of entering a situation which is bound to be difficult with tact and thoughtfulness, and not respecting the views of the nurses, changing elsewhere, its just brought confrontation and made it more difficult for transpeople to be accepted. It could have been very different.

In addition she's pushing the view that people can biologically change sex, which they cant, as opposed to changing gender. The trans women I know accept its not "biological", its social.

I would agree Beth Upton is biologically male, dictated by their genes. I think ideally single cubicles should be used for changing but obviously it will take time and money for this to happen.

In this morning's evidence, the tribunal has been told that the NHS Trust's code of conduct states that one should not 'impose one's views on others' and this was partly what led to Sandie Peggie being suspended. But what was Dr Upton doing if not imposing their views on others? One rule for her, another for Dr Upton, it would seem.

There was access to another changing room which he refused to use. It did not have a toilet as far as I'm aware, so would have been unsuitable for someone bleeding heavily as the nurse was. Fife NHS aren't covering themselves in glory so far. The doctor was asked what happened but the nurse wasn't? They blindsided her with a suspension meeting, having not discussed the situation with her previously.

Grandmabatty

There was access to another changing room which he refused to use. It did not have a toilet as far as I'm aware, so would have been unsuitable for someone bleeding heavily as the nurse was. Fife NHS aren't covering themselves in glory so far. The doctor was asked what happened but the nurse wasn't? They blindsided her with a suspension meeting, having not discussed the situation with her previously.

That’s sounds incredibly unfair and discrimination towards this nurse.

grannydarkhair

Cossy How competent would you judge a Dr to be if he said that biological sex is “a nebulous concept” and yet he is categorical that he is a biological woman? How does he know? If it’s, as he claims, he feels like a woman then what he’s saying is that feelings over-ride facts.
Surely you agree that human biology is factual, not just a concept. And as others have mentioned, certain illnesses/diseases present differently in women and men. How will Dr U know how to treat patients if he’s unable to sex them correctly?
I can guarantee that he didn’t pass any medical exams by writing twaddle like that. I’m not sure when he qualified/left Dundee University but I’m sure that I’m correct in saying that DU have never/are not teaching that.

I would be horrified!

I'm sure this man will soon be struck off. A doctor who does not have a basic knowledge of human anatomy is not someone any patient would have faith in.

AGAA4

The case with this doctor is about him saying that a nurse was bullying him as she refused to share a changing room with him.
He says he is female and has as much right to the women's changing rooms as she has.
He walked in on her when she was just in her underwear. She had to leave as he refused to go.
This is on the BBC website.

“Bullying” ? The mote hear about this case, the more im changing my stance from “I wouldn’t care” to “this is outrageous”

A lovely letter from Sandie Peggie thanking everyone who has supported her. Money from a Crowdfunder set up by a supporter will be donated to charity. It currently sits at over £30,000 and I truly wish that this brave woman would keep some of it for herself to have a holiday/whatever.

x.com/nicoleepeggiee/status/1889995534888587309?s=12

ViceVersa

In this morning's evidence, the tribunal has been told that the NHS Trust's code of conduct states that one should not 'impose one's views on others' and this was partly what led to Sandie Peggie being suspended. But what was Dr Upton doing if not imposing their views on others? One rule for her, another for Dr Upton, it would seem.

That has always been the case with those male trans who
-insist on inaccurate pronouns
-demand access to female safe spaces
-want to cheat in female sports
-want to be in female prisons
- say they are women, ignoring the fact that women are adult human females.
etc, etc

I do wish people would stop using the pronouns 'she' and 'they' when referring to Dr. Upton; among other things it confuses the issue of whom is being referred to: the Doctor or Sandra Peggie.
He is biologically male however much he considers himself to be a woman. Some of his statements are extremely alarming:
'the term biologically female or biologically male is completely nebulous. I am biological(not a robot) and my identity is female.'
'Some people may be uncomfortable with a transgender person using woman's facilities but that does not override the right of a trans gender person's to access changing rooms that align with their gender identity.'
'People who are uncomfortable with transgender issues hold misinformed, biased, unpleasant or bigoted views.'

Upton was given permission to use the female changing room by a NHS manager, in agreement with an Equality policy. No record of whether this was discussed with the females using it first.
I doubt if this doctor can be struck off for his behaviour as he has done nothing wrong medically involving patient care, but trust is essential between patient and medical staff, and this man has a complete disregard for the truth.
His feelings override medical facts, and it is impossible to place trust in a person who makes that claim.
This whole case, of course, is the result of Nicola Sturgeon's flawed policies on transgender issues.

Sandie Peggie is another one of those very brave women who have made a stand, the stress of this kind of situation is incredible, I wish they would use some of the crowdfunder money for themselves.

I agree Galaxy, i hope she can be persuaded to keep some to go on a lovely holiday somewhere where she will be totally spoiled.

The more I hear from this tribunal the more I understand why Dr Upton and Fife health authority wanted it heard in private with Dr Upton given anonymity, and the more pleased I am that this request was denied. The world needs to see how disgraceful the treatment of Sandie Peggie has been.

I must be rather old fashioned as I believe if you are born a man you die as a man.

In the time between those two inevitables, you can dress how you like, call yourself whatever you like, but and it’s a big but you have absolutely no entitlement to enter women only spaces because you are wearing a dress and lipstick.

I will not be part of the emperors new clothes lie, a man cannot become a women and a women cannot become a man.

We do know to crossdressers (which is what they refer to themselves as not trans) male to female, they are perfectly aware that although they would have preferred to be born as women, they haven’t and are not.

Just to put cross dressers in context - think Greyson Perry who has said but he has no desire to become a female, nor to dress as a woman full-time.

No the majority of cross dressers do not wish they were women -

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9415796/#:~:text=Abstract,percent%20described%20themselves%20as%20heterosexual.

Catching up here and so many positive points to appreciate.
This trans woman is behaving like an abusive, entitled, misogynistic man.
It madness thst the ‘rights’ or demands of a minority group over ride the ordinary working rights of women, as clearly happened here.
How very dare he go complaining to the boss and how daft was the boss to prioritise his feelings over those of the nurse

My experience of hospitals is that doctors are given higher status than nurses. Maybe he assumed that as well

Wyllow3

Just to put cross dressers in context - think Greyson Perry who has said but he has no desire to become a female, nor to dress as a woman full-time.

No the majority of cross dressers do not wish they were women -

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9415796/#:~:text=Abstract,percent%20described%20themselves%20as%20heterosexual.

Of the two men I know, one dresses as a woman all of the time and has done so for over 40 years, the other probably 50-50.

If you've been following the case from the start, Dr Upton's sense of entitlement has been one of the major factors. He comes across as being completely devoid of empathy or compassion and insists that his feelings must come before anyone else's rights. Now, if I'm ill or injured, I don't much care whether the doctor who treats me is male, female or whatever. What I do care about is that they are competent and treat with me with dignity. A doctor who states under oath that biological sex is a 'nebulous construct' does not exactly fill me with trust. And if I was undergoing some procedure where I had asked for a female doctor and got landed with him instead, I don't think I'd be very happy to say the least. He's already said he would treat a patient under those circumstances and would not disclose his trans status. Imagine some poor woman who has been sexually assaulted, for instance, and asks for a female doctor - only to be confronted by Dr Upton. But he thinks her distress in those circumstances isn't as important as his feelings.

Iam64

Catching up here and so many positive points to appreciate.
This trans woman is behaving like an abusive, entitled, misogynistic man.
It madness thst the ‘rights’ or demands of a minority group over ride the ordinary working rights of women, as clearly happened here.
How very dare he go complaining to the boss and how daft was the boss to prioritise his feelings over those of the nurse

My experience of hospitals is that doctors are given higher status than nurses. Maybe he assumed that as well

Well said Iam64!
Good posts, GrannyGravy, ViceVersa and many others on the thread.
Common sense and biology lessons seem to have completely disappeared and been disregarded in this case. Quite alarming that medical staff have so little knowledge of anatomy.

My experience of hospitals is that doctors are given higher status than nurses. Maybe he assumed that as well
That thought crossed my mind too.

ViceVersa exactly

He's gone further than that though by trying to get her sacked for negligence. A retro fitted complaint made long after the alleged event for which there is no evidence.

Another man transwoman in court accused of raping a 13 year old girl, how much longer are we going to continue with this charade ?

As far as the locker room situation is concerned, remember how the female athletes who didn't want to share their very private space with manly transwomen in the US until recently. Those team members who had to put up with Leah Thomas, one example, were told, after being admonished for their prejudicial attitudes, to go and undress in the women's toilets. So there they all were crammed into that space, not intended as a changing room, whilst Lea, bless her unfeminine size 11s yeah try making those smaller and her sometimes visible lady dick appendage had the entire changing room to them selves. .