Ukraine- the situation is VERY serious

Grantanow

Devorgilla

I'm also with those on here who say we must stick with the EU. When all is said and done they are the people our country has 'grown up' with. They are our siblings and we have loved them, hated them, gone to war with them, made peace with them, married into them etc. They are part of us and we of them.

So why did people vote for the Brexit disaster?

God knows!

GrannyGravy13

NotSpaghetti

GrannyGravy13 I'm sure he IS panicking.

Not according to his press release.

I would be astounded if Zelenskyy put out a press release to say that he was panicking😄.

I think Trump wants a Nobel Peace Prize. If he interferes with enough wars it looks like he is helping 🤣🤣

Ukraine is Europe.
We should have dealt with the situation in 2014 when Putin "took" Crimea saying "we must start working on returning Crimea to Russia".
He wouldn't have said this without the Budapest memorandum - after all, in 1991, Ukraine was the third largest nuclear power in the world

We ignored our promises to the Ukrainian people when they gave up their weapons (having promised to keep them safe under America, UK and Russia (!) ) and just let Putin take Crimea.

How can we stand by and let him win?
He wants to re-incorporate "Little Russia" - so, even if a peace was agreed, NATO would not be allowed to be present to maintain it. He would insist on elsewhere - India maybe?

Zelenskyy is in a terrible position.

America is no longer interested in underwriting Ukrainian and European security and it’s time for Britain to face this reality.
Telegraph today.
If true, then Britain will take the pragmatic path; move closer to America than Europe. The money always talks.

Europe “could” continue to back Ukraine without the US but they won’t, escalating the war has serious consequences and it’s just not worth the risk of a wider war with Russia that would involve strikes against Western Europe.

Although it has not been mentioned the US might even stop any attempt to continue the war.

The UK must stand together with Europe.

This has nothing to do with the EU in/out debate. This is about our national security and that of our closest land neighbours.

Trump has already made it very clear that former allegiances mean nothing to him. He would (will) happily turn his back on us, and do financial harm to the UK - with ‘friends’ like that, who needs enemies!

Sadly, under Trump, the USA is no longer our ally. We must stand with Europe.

Grantanow and WW2, I have no more idea than you do why some people chose to vote to Brexit. None of my family did. Perhaps, for that small majority, it was a time when they disliked the ties more than they appreciated them.

LizzieDrip

The UK must stand together with Europe.

This has nothing to do with the EU in/out debate. This is about our national security and that of our closest land neighbours.

Trump has already made it very clear that former allegiances mean nothing to him. He would (will) happily turn his back on us, and do financial harm to the UK - with ‘friends’ like that, who needs enemies!

Sadly, under Trump, the USA is no longer our ally. We must stand with Europe.

The UK has already made it clear it does stand within NATO/Europe. Why a leading newspaper chooses to try and sow seeds of doubt is beyond me except for simply trying to stir it when its something both major parties have always stood behind from the very start.

Of course the UK will stand with Europe, we may have left the European Union, but we are still part of Europe.

I’ve often thought that Trump admires Putin, because he’s a ruthless dictator who does what the hell he likes. And recently I’ve felt this more and more.

Witzend

I’ve often thought that Trump admires Putin, because he’s a ruthless dictator who does what the hell he likes. And recently I’ve felt this more and more.

Yep me too, he sees him as a strong man and that goes a long way with Trump who also sees himself in a similar light.

Of course we should stick with Europe. Brexit doesn’t mean we aren’t Europeans. Trump is so ignorant of world affairs and only seems to think of what’s in it for the US from a very narrow perspective. And all European countries need to re-arm pdq as Trump’s US won’t be stepping when Putin invades his next country.

Allies are not friends and no matter how ‘special’ our relationship is with Trump I can see the US aligning itself with those we perceive as enemies and so becoming a risk to our national security.

Devorgilla

Grantanow and WW2, I have no more idea than you do why some people chose to vote to Brexit. None of my family did. Perhaps, for that small majority, it was a time when they disliked the ties more than they appreciated them.

I think it was more that those who voted to Leave, although still appreciating Europe and still being part of it, were fed up of being governed by Brussels. Unelected (by the people) bureaucrats, unaccountable. At least governments can be voted out if we don’t like the direction they’re taking! Not so the EU deciding on the ‘common good’ for 27 member states.

Austria
Belgium
Bulgaria
Croatia
Cyprus
Czechia
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Ireland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
Netherlands
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden

“No thanks”. Unwieldy, protectionist (Common Agricultural Policy anybody?” one size fits all Euro (thank god Gordon Brown kept us out from that - aided Brexiting massively).

Back to the OP:

Ukraine and Russia have reached a stalemate.
This is a war Ukraine cannot win unless we actually enter the war. Unless someone is mad enough to suggest that, then a negotiated settlement is the only way out.

Totally agree FGT2

westendgirl

What is the reaction in America to this latest heavy-handed
manoeuvre. Has anyone seen any comments. ?

As the vast majority of Americans don’t even know where Ukraine is, I doubt they have given it a second thought.

We all know the situation in Ukraine is serious, but until the German election, there is not a lot EU can do.

No. They only want the mineral $$$ out of the ground - and have secured that agreement with Russia apparently.

petra

westendgirl

What is the reaction in America to this latest heavy-handed
manoeuvre. Has anyone seen any comments. ?

As the vast majority of Americans don’t even know where Ukraine is, I doubt they have given it a second thought.

Major worry in US is the cost of eggs.

Of course a negotiated settlement is needed FGT. it’s the detail within the negotiation that’s worrying many people. Putin can’t be trusted - I don’t trust Trump either. I also wonder who is pulling Trump’s strings

There will be a deal and we probably will never know the details. Politics is horse-trading is it not?

I rather thought it was about Ukrainian lives, actually.

Iam64

Of course a negotiated settlement is needed FGT. it’s the detail within the negotiation that’s worrying many people. Putin can’t be trusted - I don’t trust Trump either. I also wonder who is pulling Trump’s strings

I can't see how Ukraines natural resources can be part of some deal involving the USA?

No, I neither trust Putin nor Trump on this one.